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Bad Flight

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
An instructor told me once that a 'good' pilot on average makes about 5 mistakes in the a/c per hour.....FIVE!!! That was all word of mouth, but he was the safety officer for the squadron so I believed it...

Uh oh... that must mean that I'm... :eek:

Anyway, this sounds about right to me- it probably depends how you define "mistake." The corollary is that every flight is some combination of small mistakes, fixing those small mistakes, and avoiding other mistakes.

A few sayings come to mind like "painting yourself into a corner," "making a bad situation worse," "ahead of/behind the power curve," and the already mentioned ones about humility and learning from other people's mistakes.
 

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
Isn't every pattern pass an adjustment on your previous mistakes? Every altitude/heading correction the same thing? Every ILS wind adjustment? If you didn't have to fix mistakes constantly to fly planes, it'd be something any old tard could do.
 

eddie

Working Plan B
Contributor
A lot of these stories seem to involve first-timers Fallon, Red Flag, etc. Does that mean that work-ups and large-scale exercises are really where shit truly starts to come together for a nugget?
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
A lot of these stories seem to involve first-timers Fallon, Red Flag, etc. Does that mean that work-ups and large-scale exercises are really where shit truly starts to come together for a nugget?

Anyone's first experience at any of these large force exercises is almost inevitably a gigantic helmet explosion. There's just so much going on and all the radios are blaring, that it takes a while to be able to get the big picture and filter out all the info you don't need so you can focus on what you do need. I wouldn't say that this is where things necessarily come together for the new guys, but it's (usually) the first time that they're exposed to the full-on strike warfare environment. Bottom line - it's a lot to absorb and get used to. Hopefully if they're paying attention to their lead, or the more experienced members of their own crew, the light will start to come on. Unlike at Red Flag (which focuses mostly on A/A, or so it seems), the guys at NSAWC do a really great job in the debrief which maximizes the learning for every given sortie.

Brett
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Fallon's the first exposure most nuggets get to how things are played at the varsity level. For the Hummer moles, you see simulations at the RAG (large-force strikes, D-in-D, multiple axes, etc), but it's a LOT different IRL. Not least because you know those are actual planes with actual people you're flinging around, not just symbology driven by the assholes in the next room. Plus, fighting the system overland is never simulated right in the WST (reading the clutter is an art), and the Adversaries have literally decades of accumulated experience in how to trick-fuck the Hawkeye when they need to.

Add all that together = massive helmet fires for young and old...but mostly young. It's usually the first time you have the opportunity to grow beyond piddling FNG screwups and publicly fuck up on a truly massive scale.

If you've got a good CICO in back with you, he'll let you run with it until allllllmost the point of no return. I really lucked out in flying a lot with "Bag," my XO. We didn't have a formal on-wing program in the squadron, but the majority of my upgrader flights were with him. He knew his shit, and he knew exactly how much you could let a nugget fuck it away before it stopped being a learning experience and became an unsalvageable mess.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Fallon's the first exposure most nuggets get to how things are played at the varsity level....
FALLON: one of the hardest things to acclimatize yourself to for most NUGGETs was rolling in -- high & heavy w/ Mk82's -- and pulling off -- still heavy after only pickling one -- and still at a reasonably 'high' altitude. And of course ... that night visual dive bombing was always an eye-opener ... no pun intended. :eek::D

Coming back to the field on an 'emergency' relatively 'heavy & high' was also a new experience for most NUGGETs ...

All of our previous TRACOM and RAG work had been 'low & light', and most of the 'real-world' stuff going on then was 'low'.


 

xj220

Will fly for food.
pilot
Contributor
FALLON: one of the hardest things to acclimatize yourself to for most NUGGETs was rolling in -- high & heavy w/ Mk82's -- and pulling off -- still heavy after only pickling one -- and still at a reasonably 'high' altitude. And of course ... that night visual dive bombing was always an eye-opener ... no pun intended. :eek::D

Coming back to the field on an 'emergency' relatively 'heavy & high' was also a new experience for most NUGGETs ...

All of our previous TRACOM and RAG work had been 'low & light', and most of the 'real-world' stuff going on then was 'low'.



I can only imagine. I did my first night ASW last week and it's pretty nerve wracking. I've been down to 200 ft before, but that's during the day. At night it's impossible to see anything and 500 ft is far from enough distance.
 

TheBubba

I Can Has Leadership!
None
Anyone's first experience at any of these large force exercises is almost inevitably a gigantic helmet explosion. There's just so much going on and all the radios are blaring, that it takes a while to be able to get the big picture and filter out all the info you don't need so you can focus on what you do need. I wouldn't say that this is where things necessarily come together for the new guys, but it's (usually) the first time that they're exposed to the full-on strike warfare environment. Bottom line - it's a lot to absorb and get used to. Hopefully if they're paying attention to their lead, or the more experienced members of their own crew, the light will start to come on. Unlike at Red Flag (which focuses mostly on A/A, or so it seems), the guys at NSAWC do a really great job in the debrief which maximizes the learning for every given sortie.

Brett

From a still somewhat new guy's perspective on the above from Brett:

I've made one combat deployment and a single LFE (Large Force Exercise): Red Flag Nellis.

As for what Brett said, during my first front seat flight at RF, that was exactly the case. All I'd been used to was nothing more than one or two Prowlers doing ULT training in the local MOAs. Usually a notional strike with the other dudes in the jet playing the parts of maybe 3 or 4 strikers and an AWACS/E-2 and maybe a JTAC/FAC type. At RF, we had God only knows how many strikers, a no-shit AWACS and horrible debriefing. Couple that with unfamiliar airspace and you get a helmet fire compounded by the weight on ass switch.

But you may say "Bubba, you made a combat deployment" Yeah... but that was 4.5 months of single jet ops supporting dudes on the ground... nothing against a full blown IADS in support of an actual strike package. It was one of those thing where like Brett said, part of the issue was filtering. I had to quick fast and in a hurry figure out what pretained to me and what didn't... especially b/c some of the info was coming over two radios, and some was coming over one or the other.

Once I started to get the filter calibrated, it became a little easier to figure out what was going on. Still too late to pull that flight out of the shitter, but there was an increase in my overall SA as the flight progressed.

As a still relatively new guy, that was a huge wake up call. Before that, I never had to listen to more than two radios.. and it was really easy to distinguish what was for us and what wasn't. During the deployment, if it pretained to us, it was directed to us: Tron 01, FAC 11, blah blah blah".

At RF, it wasn't so easy. The AWACS could be passing info to a division of Hornets or AMX's and we'd need to react somehow to the info. That was where my major SA dump occurred. Figuring out that "Hey... the AWACS just told the AMX's x, y, and z. That means we need to do a and b."

But like has been alluded to, I learned from the flight and debrief. My next RF flight, my filter was more calibrated so I was able to decipher the info and make better decisions.

It also showed in my next ULT hop. Even with the striker being played by the other dudes in the flight, my decision making process was more efficient.

So like Brett said, it didn't all just come together at RF. Yet the total experience... the good flights and the "bad"... taught me a few things that I was able to apply and make myself a bit better ECMO.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
.... the above from Brett.... As for what Brett said....where like Brett said.... So like Brett said...
:icon_long:icon_lol: ... Jesus Christ :icon_lol:... like Brett said :icon_lol: ... he's not one of your department heads, is he ??? :eyebrows_:icon_lol:
 

TheBubba

I Can Has Leadership!
None
Nope. Lets call it that I was trying to make a point and was somewhat less than sober when I was making it.
 
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