• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Being vegetarian in the Navy?

Status
Not open for further replies.

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
I don't think anyone cares what the hell anyone eats.

Just don't bitch when you go to bed hungry sometimes.

I just got off a float where we had a vegetarian pilot (yes, it was a female). She seemed to get by all right.

I'd recommend adding fish to the "okay to kill" list, though. It would make things much easier.
 

60flyer

Now a C-12 pilot
pilot
Contributor
Well ... I can't speak for anyone else, but here's the fucking deal-io (in one man's opinion) for those who are getting all huffy-uber-defensive & 'questioning' @ why someone might look on 'soaps' concerns as ... somewhat humorous, shall we say???

If you're coming into the USN or any other branch that UNCLE 'likes' and is occasionally called upon to make a list & take names ... and kill the people on that list ... but one of your major concerns is your dietary regimen and how the USN can accommodate YOU: i.e., what YOU want ... what YOU hold dear ... what YOU think is important ... what YOU want to carry over from civie-street ... what YOU want to do .... :)

I suspect you might have a 'problem' getting along in a world that is full of mean assholes who eat meat.
And when they can get 'em .... they eat fish & drink milk, too ...

If it's that important -- I suggest you go to work for Microsoft.

I weep for the future of Naval Aviation ...

an34.jpg

Is this for me??

Yeah, I don't get it. Obviously if he wants to join the military he knows about the guns and the wars. He was simply asking.... "can I do it?". And the answer is "yes". It takes more effort...but you can do it. I don't know why this question is raising so many eyebrows. Because I reject eating hamburgers every day on the ship does that somehow affect my ability to shoot a gun or fly an aircraft? I don't think he's under any illusion about this job - just wondering what his options are.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Yeah, I thought that's what he meant. Heaven forbid someone actually give a shit about what they put in their body - that MUST mean they're gay. Lets all get fat instead.

Soapwater - It's fairly difficult to eat healthy on the boat. You have limited choices - and I was on USNS. I got made fun of ALL the time for what I ate. I'm sure being vegetarian isn't any different. I was picky. I brought a lot of food onto the boat myself. You can certainly do it - it just depends on what you're willing to do without.

My comment was a sarcastic comment poking fun at the seemingly random things that make up "man-law". Just like some people give me shit for not giving a flying fuck about sports and not knowing a damn thing about fixing cars, I gave OP shit for not eating meat (assuming he's even a male).

So I avoided talking about REASONS for vegetarianism, but did you seriously just justify vegetarianism as a healthy lifestyle? I think medical/nutritional science and a couple thousand years of evolution would suggest otherwise. I'd start by looking at your teeth in the mirror and pondering our evolution.

That being said, your diet in subsequent posts, sounds an awful lot like mine (when I actually eat healthfully): lean proteins (as the basis of the meal: eggs, chicken, tuna etc) surrounded by low-glycemic carbohydrates (fruits, veggies, wheat/multigrain bread, brown rice etc) and healthy fats (olive oil, nuts etc).

I can completely understand a personal conviction such as the OP's where he doesn't like how animals are treated or killed. That I can understand. But as soon as I hear the words "vegetarian" and "healthy" in the same sentence, you are officially WRONG and the conversation is over in my head.

Yes it's possible to eat healthfully while being a vegetarian, but that is simply coincidence. There is no correlation between the two. In fact, it takes a decent effort to still be healthy while being vegetarian. A good friend of mine was ordered to start eating fish after his doctor explained how unhealthy he was from his diet. And yes he was eating "beans" or whatever nonsense veggies explain about getting protein (most beans 2/3 or so carbohydrates and the rest fiber/protein).

So without causing too much of a shitstorm, again, I understand the OP's reasons for being a vegetarian and commend that type of conviction. I just don't think it's the healthy diet that our bodies have evolved to consume.
 

60flyer

Now a C-12 pilot
pilot
Contributor
My comment was a sarcastic comment poking fun at the seemingly random things that make up "man-law". Just like some people give me shit for not giving a flying fuck about sports and not knowing a damn thing about fixing cars, I gave OP shit for not eating meat (assuming he's even a male).

So I avoided talking about REASONS for vegetarianism, but did you seriously just justify vegetarianism as a healthy lifestyle? I think medical/nutritional science and a couple thousand years of evolution would suggest otherwise. I'd start by looking at your teeth in the mirror and pondering our evolution.

That being said, your diet in subsequent posts, sounds an awful lot like mine (when I actually eat healthfully): lean proteins (as the basis of the meal: eggs, chicken, tuna etc) surrounded by low-glycemic carbohydrates (fruits, veggies, wheat/multigrain bread, brown rice etc) and healthy fats (olive oil, nuts etc).

I can completely understand a personal conviction such as the OP's where he doesn't like how animals are treated or killed. That I can understand. But as soon as I hear the words "vegetarian" and "healthy" in the same sentence, you are officially WRONG and the conversation is over in my head.

Yes it's possible to eat healthfully while being a vegetarian, but that is simply coincidence. There is no correlation between the two. In fact, it takes a decent effort to still be healthy while being vegetarian. A good friend of mine was ordered to start eating fish after his doctor explained how unhealthy he was from his diet. And yes he was eating "beans" or whatever nonsense veggies explain about getting protein (most beans 2/3 or so carbohydrates and the rest fiber/protein).

So without causing too much of a shitstorm, again, I understand the OP's reasons for being a vegetarian and commend that type of conviction. I just don't think it's the healthy diet that our bodies have evolved to consume.

Where did I say vegetarian = healthy?? And where did someone start having a conversation with you about this that was "over in your head"??

I don't know why you piss me off so much....but you do. I try to ignore you...but it's almost impossible. The things you say.... did you mature at ALL in college? It's like dealing with a 15 year old know-it-all who gets shot down at every turn and yet you don't change and keep coming back for more. That's not confidence....that's stupidity.

OK, I'm really going to try not to respond any more - even if that means I need to do some deep breathing exercises.

*close eyes* Breathe in 1......2......3.....4.......5...... Breathe out 5.........4.........3........2........1........
 

soapwater

Member
My comment was a sarcastic comment poking fun at the seemingly random things that make up "man-law". Just like some people give me shit for not giving a flying fuck about sports and not knowing a damn thing about fixing cars, I gave OP shit for not eating meat (assuming he's even a male).

So I avoided talking about REASONS for vegetarianism, but did you seriously just justify vegetarianism as a healthy lifestyle? I think medical/nutritional science and a couple thousand years of evolution would suggest otherwise. I'd start by looking at your teeth in the mirror and pondering our evolution.

That being said, your diet in subsequent posts, sounds an awful lot like mine (when I actually eat healthfully): lean proteins (as the basis of the meal: eggs, chicken, tuna etc) surrounded by low-glycemic carbohydrates (fruits, veggies, wheat/multigrain bread, brown rice etc) and healthy fats (olive oil, nuts etc).

I can completely understand a personal conviction such as the OP's where he doesn't like how animals are treated or killed. That I can understand. But as soon as I hear the words "vegetarian" and "healthy" in the same sentence, you are officially WRONG and the conversation is over in my head.

Yes it's possible to eat healthfully while being a vegetarian, but that is simply coincidence. There is no correlation between the two. In fact, it takes a decent effort to still be healthy while being vegetarian. A good friend of mine was ordered to start eating fish after his doctor explained how unhealthy he was from his diet. And yes he was eating "beans" or whatever nonsense veggies explain about getting protein (most beans 2/3 or so carbohydrates and the rest fiber/protein).

So without causing too much of a shitstorm, again, I understand the OP's reasons for being a vegetarian and commend that type of conviction. I just don't think it's the healthy diet that our bodies have evolved to consume.

I don't care about getting shit for being vegetarian, and I explicitly said I wanted to avoid a discussion as to why, but once you started with this nonsense...

I'm not a vegetarian for health reasons (as you stated), nor am I necessarily healthy because I'm a vegetarian. Most of the time I'm a carbotarian, but practically everything in your post is wrong. If anyone here has studied evolutionary biology, they should be laughing at you right now. Look at my teeth, you say? Those canines, are those what you're referring to? When was the last time you used those to chew your meat? It's funny how all monkeys have canines, yet (except for bugs) they're all vegetarian (except for some apes--namely chimpanzees--who cannibalize over territory). Do they use their canines to chew bugs?

As for medical/nutritional science, all signs point to YES, vegetarianism is a healthy--if not healthier--lifestyle; in fact, vegetarians live longer (on average), have a much lower incidence of diabetes, cancer, heart disease, and more. Whether this has to do with the type of person who chooses to be vegetarian (someone who is already inclined to be healthy, maybe), or vegetarianism itself, is debatable, but the science by no means indicates it is unhealthy or not just as healthy. Pescetarians fare even better, and they don't put any mammals in their mouths. And if you ask an evolutionary biologist and/or anthropologist, the chances are he'll think (contrary to your 1960s brand of evolutionary science) that humans first started eating fish with a diet that was still mostly vegetarian, and eventually started hunting.

Have our bodies evolved to eat meat? Hell no. We are about as efficient at digesting dietary protein (i.e. flesh) as a cow. Wolves are 10 times more efficient at it. If you ingest meat, you have to cook it. Does any other carnivore on Earth have to cook their meat to digest it? No other carnivore also WASTES 40% of the dietary protein it takes in--that's right, 40% of that meat you ingest can't be used. Your logic is that you eat protein, it goes to your muscle. That's not how it works. You eat a full (or denatured) protein, it needs to be broken down by your body and then reconstituted as protein. This takes energy and is very inefficient (especially if our bodies are bad at breaking it down, which isn't the case for actual carnivores like wolves). Your body doesn't have the resources to convert all that dietary protein into usable protein, so a lot of it is wasted (and some even converted to fat--yes, eating pure dietary protein can be broken down and converted to fat).

So what's more efficient: getting protein from cooking and eating meat, or eating the components that make up protein (i.e. amino acids)? Well, where do we find amino acids... grains, nuts, and legumes all contain essential amino acids that are needed for protein and muscle. If they didn't contain them, carnivores wouldn't be able to eat that delicious flesh off vegetarians. It's also undeniably more efficient to make protein this way, and if you actually have a properly balanced diet (whether by the food pyramid, or by a Mediterranean diet that most physicians will say has a healthy meat intake), most of the protein in your body (as opposed to most of the protein you intake) comes from non-meat sources.

Conclusion: no, science does not say humans have evolved to eat meat--quite the contrary. Just because we're capable of it doesn't mean we're evolved for it. Cows can eat meat, too.

Vegetarians run a slightly higher risk for certain vitamin deficiencies, but it's only marginally higher and, in the first place, being vegetarian != being healthy (even though, on average, it seems to be healthier). You can eat Doritos all day and call yourself a vegetarian. Some people also say we can't get L-Carnitine (the function of which isn't fully understood anyway). That's true for vegans, not ovo/lacto-vegetarians. Vegans? That's another story. They can become malnourished quite easily if they aren't very deliberate about their diet.

Also, do you like those protein powders? Do those come from meat? Whey is a byproduct of cheese, and most protein powders are fortified with soy. Men shouldn't eat too much soy because it contains estrogen-mimickers, but if the intake is balanced, there's no doubt it is extremely healthy.

That's all I have to say on the subject. If you have a balanced diet with meat, then you'll probably be healthy; if you have a balanced diet with none, you'll also be healthy. If you eat steak every day, chances are you'll die off before I do. If you just eat Doritos and celery, the same is true.

I don't care about the health reasons--I'm just familiar with them. Some people are also vegetarian for environmental reasons, and I have one friend who's one for economic reasons (meat is heavily subsidized--he refuses to eat taxpayer money). I'm a vegetarian for what most would call "ethical" reasons, but that's also a stretch. I don't think eating meat is wrong--there are no moral facts to the issue. I simply think other animals suffer, and I don't want to contribute to their suffering unnecessarily. If there were another ice age (where yes, we would've died without meat), I might reconsider that position, but in my present state of mind, killing wouldn't be any less unfortunate in dire than in normal circumstances.

As for not killing animals and potentially killing humans in the military, I addressed that issue. Factory farming isn't the same as hunting for survival, nor is killing a terrorist the same as killing a pedestrian. If the Third Reich were conquering Europe and all I had was meat rations, I'd probably eat it--I'm a pragmatist. The Third Reich represents a greater "evil" than eating a few chunks of flesh. Ironically, however, Hitler thought factory farming was cowardly, and he was, for the most part, a vegetarian (just like many other high-level party officials).

So when some people think it's womanly to refuse to eat meat, or inconsistent with military life, I can just respond with, "Well Hitler was a vegetarian." Probably not the best way to respond to it, but it works... it also proves the point that vegetarians needn't be consistent in their moral outlook, although I think I am.

My basic question was answered: yes, you can be a vegetarian in the Navy. If I couldn't be one, I wouldn't expect the Navy to accommodate me. I have no sense of entitlement, but if I can serve my country while also meeting what you call my "dietary concerns," that's great.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top