Blackhawk learning curve during TF-160 inception, plus agressive flying tactics and training

[hscs]

i think everything that you just said is totally reasonable. look, i read a book, The Night Stalkers, i had questions, i found this forum by accident, and i thought i would take advantage of the unique opportunity to learn from those who would know best. i do believe there is an awesome story here, but figuring out how to tell it takes time and understanding. before i go through the "proper channels" i wanted to learn a bit more about the subject matter. that's it. if folks are uncomfortable with that, totally reasonable.

We are also very guarded on this forum for those that haven't been vetted. In that light, (and not to nit pick), you say that you are a writer - yet you take the time to capitalize proper nouns, but not 'I', and you miss commas where they should be placed according to writing standards.

It doesn't make your story believable, even though you could be e e cummings re-incarnated.

 

[erikwriter]

We are also very guarded on this forum for those that haven't been vetted. In that light, (and not to nit pick), you say that you are a writer - yet you take the time to capitalize proper nouns, but not 'I', and you miss commas where they should be placed according to writing standards.

It doesn't make your story believable, even though you could be e e cummings re-incarnated.

some say e. e. Cummings formatted his poetry the way he did because he was trying to create a visual story. i had a professor who suggested his format was more a product of his brand of functioning insanity and less a product of creative choice. as for me, i don't sit around waiting to answer forum threads. i am usually doing four things at once. to be honest, writing casual posts or e-mails, even text messages or any other form of electronic communication, is not a top priority on my list so i write in my own weird form of short hand. i do not consider this an asset, merely a fact, more like a flaw. a flaw i should correct but probably won't. it is what it is. you are well within your rights to judge me on that flaw if you like.

as for folks being guarded on this forum, i under estimated how guarded people would be, but i do not blame anyone for it. all i want is to learn a bit more about Hawks, and some of the tactics developed during those first years of TF-160. i stand by my choice to reach out to folks here. i get it if people are not comfortable. like i said several times now, i just want to learn.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I think there are two things here which are creating limited to no feedback:

1. You are kind of barking up the wrong tree. This forum is dedicated to discussion amongst Naval Aviators and Flight Officers, so as you might imagine, that is pretty unrelated and far removed from the 160th and what they do.

2. When you throw out the word "tactics", that tends to shut people up. Tactics are one category of information that are typically always classified. Whether or not 30 year old 160th tactics are still classified, I have no idea, just saying that the very word probably throws a lot of red flags around here. Obviously not your intent, but it is what it is.

 

[erikwriter]

I think there are two things here which are creating limited to no feedback:

1. You are kind of barking up the wrong tree. This forum is dedicated to discussion amongst Naval Aviators and Flight Officers, so as you might imagine, that is pretty unrelated and far removed from the 160th and what they do.

2. When you throw out the word "tactics", that tends to shut people up. Tactics are one category of information that are typically always classified. Whether or not 30 year old 160th tactics are still classified, I have no idea, just saying that the very word probably throws a lot of red flags around here. Obviously not your intent, but it is what it is.

fair enough. i am not looking to expose anything or anyone. when i ask for examples of training tactics perhaps i should say training exercises.

as for Hawks, there must be something that makes flying one unique, something that took some adjustment.

again, just trying to learn.

 

[Brett327]

just trying to learn.

You keep saying that. The point that others have tried to make to you is that you aren't going to learn anything here that's going to satisfy your interests.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

I think you just have to understand when it's guy's asses on the line revealing even the smallest of details could give the enemy an advantage. Training exercises are not much different, I'm sure the 160th practices the exact same maneuvers in exercises that they use in the RW.

To hit home: I read an article a few weeks ago where an author got to try out a F-18E/F simulator. They wouldn't even let him look at the latest and greatest Rhino sim iteration, and even though he was flying an older block Rhino they still wouldn't let him touch the radar and he had to blur it out in all the pictures. If the Navy is so secretive about the offensive weapons capabilities of not even its latest and greatest fighters then you can imagine about how the Army feels about revealing next to anything about one of the most secretive and important air groups in the U.S. Military.

Article for reference: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...s-the-navys-fa-18-sim-into-the-danger-zone/1/

 

[erikwriter]

You keep saying that. The point that others have tried to make to you is that you aren't going to learn anything here that's going to satisfy your interests.

how do you know what would satisfy my interests? i'm not asking for a playbook here. i learned just by reading unrelated threads.

 

[erikwriter]

I think you just have to understand when it's guy's asses on the line revealing even the smallest of details could give the enemy an advantage. Training exercises are not much different, I'm sure the 160th practices the exact same maneuvers in exercises that they use in the RW.

To hit home: I read an article a few weeks ago where an author got to try out a F-18E/F simulator. They wouldn't even let him look at the latest and greatest Rhino sim iteration, and even though he was flying an older block Rhino they still wouldn't let him touch the radar and he had to blur it out in all the pictures. If the Navy is so secretive about the offensive weapons capabilities of not even its latest and greatest fighters then you can imagine about how the Army feels about revealing next to anything about one of the most secretive and important air groups in the U.S. Military.

Article for reference: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...s-the-navys-fa-18-sim-into-the-danger-zone/1/

thank you for the article. it took that dude a year to organize flying in the simulator. and i do understand. i don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable. i don't want anyone to feel like they are giving away company secrets. i don't want anyone to think they are betraying anything.

 

[erikwriter]

okay. so i see now that i may have inadvertently dove into murky waters. you guys don't know who the hell i am. why would you volunteer details no matter how small to a stranger. so i am officially bowing out. i normally don't give up this easy but the nature of the information i am requesting plus the folks who i am asking requires me to alter my normal plan of attack. you guys don't need a nosy stranger picking your brain. so thanks to those who tried to explain the nature of the intel i was requesting and to those who were slightly more harsh, if you served, i respect and am grateful for your service.

 

[Brett327]

Now learning has occurred. Good luck on your project. If you can write dialogue like this...

... you'll have a bright future indeed.

 

[xmid]

If you really want to write about them (and especially for a movie) I would go through channels to try to embed with them. They may or may not be down to do that, but my experience with them has been extremely positive in what they would share. As far as flying "the 'Hawk" I think there are many here that could give you some info, although not much on their tactics as much of Navy helo's missions (read anything but HSC, and we are limited there...) don't correlate and the parts that do we ignorantly don't do much cross-talk with those guys so it wouldn't be accurate.

 

[Duc'-guy25]

Also you kind of have to keep in mind current events as well...

1. Less than a year ago it was reported a bunch of Jihadi wackjobs (ISIS, ISIL, whatever we're calling those lunatics these days) claimed to have captured a UH-60 or two that we left with the Iraqis. State department says this is untrue, however, posting on a public forum how to overcome the challenges of flying a Blackhawk is probably not the best idea in light of it anyways.

2. A good chunk for our communities are still using the Blackhawk and TF-160 on a fairly regular basis, so discussing their weaknesses and strengths when it comes to tactical flying also...not the best idea.

Just saying... Its not uncommon for adversaries to go trolling and whaling on sites to gather intel, in fact, its a pretty regular thing which is why sites like this police themselves pretty well. But I'll tell you everything I know about the UH-60...They are usually black...oh and their rotor wash can knock over my motorcycle next to the parade field....Wasn't the best of friends with the Army guys that day...