Blackwater guys on the rooftop in Najaf

[LoneSailor]

Read Corporate Warriors. Great book.

Rules? The US has tons of civillian interrogators, ever hear any of them being reprimanded or in trouble?

You think UCMJ governs these "mercs"?

 

[skidkid]

This is a very gray area that we as a nation are entering as the "War for Profit" types start showing up. Lots of guys getting out to go work for Blackwater- same war more pay kind of thing.
The thing that is troubling is that what are they/ combatants? contractors? or something else. All those KBR truck drivers, waht are they.
When it was military personnel driving the supply trucks they were combatants and legitimate targets. WAht are these guys, noncombatants or legit targets? Waht happens when we need the clerks and cooks to grab a rilfe and plug the gap when they are all contractors.

My own opinion this is bad why dont we jsut increase the military and send the contractors home

 

[bobbybrock]

Most of the guys I know that fly for Blackwater are retired. I would assume that most of the shooters are also.
Why do you think it is that Spec Ops E-7 and E-8 types are gettin 150,000 dollar bonuses? To keep them from going to the private contractor the D.O.D just hired. Go figure.
But I guess if I had twenty in and was asked to go fly for these guys and make about 25,000 ( not a typo ) a month. I'd would.
Back to the subject. These guys do a **** hot job over here. We see them everyday in the green zone.

 

[gaijin6423]

I know a guy who works for Blackwater, and one of my little brothers best friends works for Dyncorp. Turns out both of these guys were in the same platoon when with 1st Force, but that's another story. The point is, from what they've told me, yeah, the pay is great, but the serious operators that go to work for these companies are being thrown into some serious sh!tstorms. One of these guys went so far as to say that the reason they get paid so much is because they're expendable, and that the public would rather see them get killed than actual servicemembers. I'm not sure how much I agree with that, but as much as I hate to say it, there's probably more truth there than many of us want to admit.

 

[Fly Navy]

This is a very gray area that we as a nation are entering as the "War for Profit" types start showing up. Lots of guys getting out to go work for Blackwater- same war more pay kind of thing.
The thing that is troubling is that what are they/ combatants? contractors? or something else. All those KBR truck drivers, waht are they.
When it was military personnel driving the supply trucks they were combatants and legitimate targets. WAht are these guys, noncombatants or legit targets? Waht happens when we need the clerks and cooks to grab a rilfe and plug the gap when they are all contractors.

My own opinion this is bad why dont we jsut increase the military and send the contractors home

Good questions. I think the questions really start when they get captured. As it is, under the rules of war, unless I'm wrong, a civilian that shoots back at you is no longer a civilian. They just became a legitimate target. However, they are not legitimate combatants. They are not the member of an organized and uniformed army of a sovereign nation. Well, these contractors... when they're captured, they too are not members of a uniformed and organized
army of a sovereign nation... or are they? They're getting paid by the US Government to do dirty work... so does that make them legitimate combatants? I don't know, honestly. I'd defer to someone much smarter on laws of warfare than myself.

P.S. That video got me all charged up watching them bang away at bad guys. AWESOME!

 

[Brett327]

Their status is no different than any of the other non-military people in the fray. There are a bunch of Agency an FBI guys all over OIF and OEF. For all practical purposes, the traditional rules of warfare are out the window anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.

Brett

 

[Fly Navy]

For all practical purposes, the traditional rules of warfare are out the window anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.

Brett

That's true. The enemy can't exactly claim war crimes when they themselves are in violation. God knows they try though.

 

[skidkid]

That's true. The enemy can't exactly claim war crimes when they themselves are in violation. God knows they try though.

I think they have been very successful claiming war crimes and winning the propaganda fight hell they now have senators on their side. When captured scream abuse-Al Queda manual

 

[Fly Navy]

I think they have been very successful claiming war crimes and winning the propaganda fight hell they now have senators on their side. When captured scream abuse-Al Queda manual

True, in "crazy court" they sure are successful. I guess that's what matters now.

 

[zippy]

True, in "crazy court" they sure are successful. I guess that's what matters now.

As the old saying goes, "perception is reality".

 

[A4sForever]

So they are "Mercs" --- and thus, somewhat "tainted", because they get paid to do a job? How many of you active duty guys do it for "free" .... ??? None? That's what I thought ....... Blackwater and guys like them are doing what our government won't or can't --- and doing it quite well, we might add. I have two personal friends who are "retired" SEAL MCPO's and they are doing a tough job "under contract". They've been doing it WAY before 9/11 -- they never "retire".

If we had 3 million men under arms, then I guess we wouldn't need outfits such as Blackwater ... ... but lacking that ????

 

[Brett327]

So they are "Mercs" --- and thus, somewhat "tainted", because they get paid to do a job? How many of you active duty guys do it for "free" .... ??? None? That's what I thought ....... Blackwater and guys like them are doing what our government won't or can't --- and doing it quite well, we might add. I have two personal friends who are "retired" SEAL MCPO's and they are doing a tough job "under contract". They've been doing it WAY before 9/11 -- they never "retire".

If we had 3 million men under arms, then I guess we wouldn't need outfits such as Blackwater ... ... but lacking that ????

Concur. Mercenaries have been used in the US dating back to the Revolutionary War. I don't understand why people always seem to freak out about them.

Brett

 

[130Gunner]

That AC-130 footage was very cool. I always like watching stuff blowup.

Hehehe, me too. That specific stuff blowing up looks vaguely familiar.


Problem with Merc's? Thank God they're there. They have rules (the common sense stuff) so they aren't exactly raiding homes and burning down schools. We have been denied clearance to engage a AAA peice that was ACTIVELY engaging us. (Uh-huh, celebratory fire at 2am with no one else around with tracers following us around the sky?) They don't have to deal with that crap, so sometimes they are the only ones that can get things done. And if you don't like merc's, what would be your definition? Guys working for The Company using military equipment because they are a bit, ahem, freer to employ? (I like to call it operating under a more sensible set of ROE's.)

 

[A4sForever]

BUMP ... because these guys are standing on the wall .... and because these guys are worth it ....

 

[AllAmerican75]

I got a coach who is former US Army Special Forces and worked for Blackwater after he got out of the army. He painted the picture that most of the Blackwater guys are ex-military, who love what they do, but for some reason or another could no longer do it in the military so they do it for a private company. He also said that you're pretty much expendable in the company's eyes. He said that when he was trying to get back from the Middle East he had a helluva time getting a plane ticket and ride home.