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Bleak future for SNA's

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stinky

Registered User
This email was forwarded to me from a retired admiral that still stays in touch with the rest of his admiral buddies. It's a rather bleak yet interesting read.

Stinky
_________________________________________________
For those of you who still follow Naval Aviation! Super



This email concerns all of you with midshipmen/graduates who want or are waiting for flight school as a Student Naval Aviator (Navy Pilot).

On Tuesday, January 4th, 2005, the commanding officer (CO) of Naval Aviation Schools Command (NASC) spoke to all officers currently waiting to start flight school as pilots in what is called the “Alpha Pool” (A-pool). The purpose of his remarks were to explain the current situation regarding the extreme backlog in the student naval aviator (SNA) pipeline and what course of action will be implemented to resolve the situation. This is a brief explanation of the Captain’s remarks.

Obviously, the US military is a very complex entity requiring a tremendous

amount of planning and forethought. Part of this planning is projecting how

many

people will be required to fulfill a particular job in the years ahead. In

the

case of naval aviators, this personnel projection window is

3-7 years based on the longest naval aviator training track, an F/A-18

Hornet

strike pilot. For planning purposes, it takes a minimum of 3 years to train

an

OCS (Officer Candidate School) graduate to be a Hornet pilot. This is

because

OCS kids already have their college educations. It takes a minimum of 7

years to

train Academy and ROTC kids to be a Hornet pilot, because of the 4 years

spent

in college. Therefore, the Navy must predict

3-7 years in advance how many pilots they are going to need. Clearly, the military is a very dynamic, ever changing organization, just like any large organization. In the 3-7 years leading up to the present time, the naval aviation community changed in ways that were not anticipated. The F-14 Tomcat and S-3 Viking platforms are retiring sooner than expected. The EA-6B Prowler community shrunk by 2 squadrons unexpectedly. The P-3 Orions are dropping like flies because they are so old. All of these factors have resulted in more pilots than planes.

Rather than purge trained and experienced aviators as their platforms disappear (they are transitioned into another platform when possible), it is more advantageous to purge those people who are untrained and inexperienced officers.

The powers-that-be (up to the highest levels in the naval aviation community, whom I will use NASC as a simple, catch-all designator) determined that 160 student naval aviators need to be purged from the program. They did consider simply firing those individuals who scored just well enough on the ASTB (the standard aviation aptitude test) to qualify for flight training, but did not over-achieve. They decided against this because it would obviously be changing the rules mid-game and cheat individuals who were promised on good-faith a spot in flight training.

After several months of analysis and debate, the course of action decided

upon

was to “raise the bar” in the first portion of flight training, known as

Aviation Preflight Indoctrination (API). This is the 6-week course with

which

all naval aviators and naval flight officers begin their flight training. Up

to

this point, the command policy regarding API has been 3 academic failures

(out

of 6 academic tests) resulted in removal from flight training. This created

an

attrition rate in API of approximately

2%. In order to meet the new attrition quota, NASC decided that the attrition rate in API should be forcibly raised to 20%.

Using the last 200 pilots to complete API as a data set, NASC calculated that approximately a 91 average on all tests will be required to continue in flight training beyond API (80% is already considered a failing grade). However, those last 200 pilots were not affected by this new rule, and the new standard is a “rolling average”. This means that the pilots now starting API will obviously work harder and score higher, pushing the “rolling average” up with each API class. A new API class starts every week.

**SIDEBAR** The Navy actually uses a more complex scoring system than simple averages for flight training called the “Naval Standard Score (NSS)”, but an explanation of this system exceeds the aforementioned statement of “brief explanation”. For those of you that know this system, the NSS now required in API for student pilots will begin at 42.5, but could change as each class progresses. The average NSS for API is 28.

There are literately hundreds of Ensigns waiting to start API, whether they are actually here in Pensacola or still at the Academy or their ROTC units. NASC also decided that to get their numbers as rapidly as possible, they are going to activate the “Charlie Pool” (C-pool). Up to this point, in order for a pilot to start API, a slot must be available at one of the locations that conducts the second phase of flight training, known as “Primary”. These locations are as follows: NAS Whiting Field in Milton, FL, NAS Corpus Christi, TX, Vance Air Force Base (AFB), OK, and Moody AFB, GA. The Primary locations are as backed-up as Pensacola; therefore, the follow-on slot requirement is being waived. Upon the successful completion of API, student naval aviators will enter the C-pool and continue waiting in Pensacola for a slot at one of the Primary locations; a wait of several more months. The activation of the Charlie pool will facilitate the new goal of pushing all waiting Ensigns through API by May of this year.

The measures being taken by NASC are temporary, designed to rapidly purge the program of approximately 80 of the required 160 student pilots. Measures are also being taken along other portions of the training pipeline which are beyond the Captain’s remarks of Tuesday the 4th. Pilots further along in the pipeline have been feeling the crunch for some time. Several SNAs have transferred to the Marine Corps, which is currently short on pilots. Others have simply been removed from active duty upon completion of flight school and sentenced to the reserves. A relative few are actually making it all the way through the flight training syllabus into the active fleet. There are virtually no jet slots available, with only the top individual from each primary class even having a shot at getting into the jet training pipeline. All those dreams of being Maverick are virtually gone.

For those of you with Ensigns currently waiting to start API, the consequences of the new policy are obvious: a much higher level of effort will be necessary to pass API and continue in flight training as a pilot. It may be possible to acquire an NFO (Naval Flight Officer, back-seater) slot if an individual falls below the required pilot score. The Navy has a slight current need for NFOs. It may also be possible to obtain a transfer to the Marine Corps; however, the likelihood of that occurring is slim to none. The Marine Corps is in need of pilots now, not 2-3 years from now, so they are looking for transfers much farther along in the training pipeline. Remember that all Marine Corps officers must go to The Basic School (TBS, 6 months long) in Quantico, VA before going on full active duty in the Fleet Marine Force (FMF). For Marine Corps transfers, they will attend TBS after earning their pilot wings.

For some, Pensacola and API will be as far as their Navy career will take them.

The entire Navy is overwhelmed with junior officers (Ensigns, Lieutenant Junior Grades, and Lieutenants) at the present time, not just the aviation community.

Some Ensigns will be placed on “Individual Ready Reserve” which, according to the NASC CO, will likely be recalled “only in the case of global thermonuclear war”. Translation: the payback commitment is meaningless. Here’s your ticket home, thanks for playing, have a nice life.

What about transfers to other services you ask? Extremely problematic at best, with the exception perhaps being Army infantry. Inter-service transfers are very difficult to negotiate and accomplish.

For those of you with midshipmen hoping to become Navy pilots, this paints an uncertain indefinite future. Pilot slots for the Academy and ROTC are being reduced by 50 as a whole, for how long I do not know. I understand there to be quite a few issues with service assignment for the class of ‘05. If you are hoping and praying for more pilot slots, stop, there will be none this year, that I can guarantee.

For those ‘05 graduates that actually do secure a pilot slot, I would expect the Navy to throw graduate school at them like candy at a football game. Graduate school defers people for a good solid year from Pensacola. Many ‘04 graduates were given graduate school slots this past summer to prevent them from getting to Pensacola and exacerbating the problem. Those that do make it to Pensacola this summer or fall, if the quota has not been met, expect the new policy to still be in effect. Even if the quota has been met, expect an uncertain and bumpy ride through the flight training pipeline.

The outlooks for ‘06 and ‘07 are quite uncertain from my point of view. I am speculating far beyond my pay grade, but I would anticipate a sharply reduced number of pilot slots from years past, resulting in much stiffer competition. I obtained a pilot billet from a class ranking in the 700s, barely. I was actually selected for NFO first and fell into an open pilot slot. Do not expect this to happen in the next few years.

I think the outlook for ‘08, ‘09, and ‘10 improves, because the Navy will be acquiring the new Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) and a replacement for the ailing P-3 Orion in the years following these classes’ graduations.

What all this really comes down to the is the fundamental dictum of life on Earth: Hard work is rewarded. Then again, not everyone can finish first and someone has to be the anchor-man. Tell your mids that with the current state of the Navy, their effort at the Academy will directly affect their career in the Navy. With the class of ‘04, they started commissioning “undesignated” officers.

These officers will do 2 years as a surface warfare officer and hope that there is another place in the Navy for them at the end of those 2 years. Of course, the pendulum will once again swing the other way and the Navy will find itself in desperate need of officers, but not today and not for the immediate future.

nnnnnnnnnnnnn

CAG, thanks. I RFI’ed Pers 43 for bottom line truth. Below is DQ’s reply.

V/r, Clem

************************************************

Clem,

The reality:

· We assessed the right number.

· We cut force structure, obviating the need for some already in the system.

· Actions taken:

FY-05 accessions adjusted. We need all that get aviation in ‘05

FY-04 over accessed by about 80, hence the API raising of the bar. Want

to cull the herd before spending flight training money on them.

FY-03 and FY-02 over by about 50 each. FY-02 too far along to affect without causing empty FRS seats, so FY-03 will be reduced. We have some going USMC and some going USNR, since we have already spent money to train them.

· In summary, FY-05 kids that get aviation are good to go, FY-04 kids will be reduced by about 80 in API by raising the bar, FY-03 will be reduced, but I expect we will find most of them homes in USMC or USNR, and FY-02 kids are good to go, unless they volunteer for USNR.



It was not fun, but it is real money. R/DQ

(Contact info deleted....Crowbar)
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Been posted here before. But yes, no good for someone in A-pool/API.
 

kray1395

Active Member
The big takeaway from this message is that all of you FY05 guys and gals that have already been selected for SNA need to STOP FREAKING OUT!
 

Red2

E-2 NFO. WTI. DH.
None
"Want to cull the herd before spending flight training money on them."

HA HA HA! Anyone who's been through an A-pool muster knows that this is an appropriate nickname. MOOOOO!!
 

ocjams

Registered User
wow, that's the third time I've read the same message, but in different posts. Ok...wait....I think I can recite it verbatum, as I've memorized it already. (chuckle chuckle) I have one question though, doesn't that message seem a little cynical to be the real deal. I know it simply reiterrates exactly the types of official messages that are circulating regarding this topic, but to me it just seems a little blunt and heartless about how it refers to the people who are cut from training.

By the way, KRay...once again, thanks for the much needed confidence builder for us of the "05" kind. I'll definitely stop freaking out now.

Also, I have a question about that part of the message that says that new Ensigns can "expect grad school to be given out like candy. " I'm not a technical major, but after talking to a few people, it seems like all you can expect to get is a Masters in Aero Engineering or something like that. Does anyone know if there's a possibility of an 05 grad to get an accelerated MBA maybe, or any other kinds of grad education instead of the technical majors normally pushed, like engineering?
 

Godspeed

His blood smells like cologne.
pilot
ocjams said:
to me it just seems a little blunt and heartless about how it refers to the people who are cut from training.
QUOTE]

HAHAH AAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

If you want to join an organization with a heart, sympathy, and feelings, join the Red Cross or the Peace Corps. You either cut it or you don't, thats the truth of the matter. This applies to all aspects of the military, not just flight school. A lot of times they won't even give you a reason for cutting you. A lot of people work their whole lives to get a slot, and lose it by missing one more point than they should've on a test. What happens to them?

"Pack your ****, the door is over there, have a nice trip home."

Get used to it man, its the way of the government and the military.
 

EODDave

The pastures are greener!
pilot
Super Moderator
Just read the last 15 lines. That is an additional reply that I had not seen before. The part above it, yes I had seen about 4 or 5 times. The bottom info was fairly new. Thanks for the latest info.
 

ocjams

Registered User
You're right, if you don't perform - you're out! I understand that, but I was just saying that it kinda sucks that SNA's in the pipeline now can carry a 90 avg and get booted, while in 3 years a 90 avg will be considered pretty good. As far as the "heartless" way the government does things......I understand that too. Don't you think that when this manpower pendulum swings the other way and the Navy's trying to keep the officer quota filled, there will be a lot of people out there that have a bad taste in their mouth because they were laid off? Excuse my mindless blabbering about heartlessness and cut throat tactics, and I don't wanna seem like a bleeding heart here.
 

Godspeed

His blood smells like cologne.
pilot
Hehe... I know. As a friend of mine that served on the boards back in the day (former P-3 pilot, squadron CO) would say, "The whole game is about timing and numbers." You have to have the right timing, and the navy has to be looking for the right numbers. If these two aren't in good shape, Jesus himself couldn't get a flight slot.


It would be a heartbreaking experience to not meet the high standards they are setting in flight school these days. Im not saying it wouldn't, just saying that it's something to be prepared for.

As far as the Peace Corps is concerned? I think you can get apps down at the Unemployment Office... :-D
 

Kycntryboy

Registered User
pilot
kray1395 said:
The big takeaway from this message is that all of you FY05 guys and gals that have already been selected for SNA need to STOP FREAKING OUT!
:shake_125 Who's freakin out ... I don't see anybody freaking out... I'm not freaking out..who's... sniff..I'm not frea...sniff :shake_125
 

beau

Registered User
Kycntryboy said:
:shake_125 Who's freakin out ... I don't see anybody freaking out... I'm not freaking out..who's... sniff..I'm not frea...sniff :shake_125


HAHA.....put down the pot man! :D That post was great! :icon_smil
 

ocjams

Registered User
I heard from the flight student detailer

So, in an effort to find out what the delay might be for new Ensigns graduating this may, I emailed the flight student detailer and asked what sort of wait I can expect before starting API, and this is what he told me:

"the current wait for pilot training is not more than 9 months." he went on to say that May grads will tentatively have report dates around Oct or Nov. In addition to this, he also mentioned that graduate education will not be offered this year since it was meant to be a remedy for the overselection of 03 and 04 and that we should not expect this to be a viable option. The detailer also said that his numbers show that the attrition rate in flight school shows the release of, on avg, 30 students a month. Finally, regarding redesignation if you attrite from flight training...the detailer was very clear in stating that only a select few are given the opportunity to redesignate and that most people can just expect a free ticket home.

Just let me say, I only asked him tentative report dates and this is what i got in the reply email.....much more info than I needed. I can only assume that since he's been getting a lot of questions about the other things...he wanted to keep me informed or possibly to put rumors to rest. As always, it isn't good news but its reality. Good Luck
 
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