Blues to Get Supers?

[Farva01]

While obviously not a pilot, I have learned so much F/A-18 , F-16 system knowledge in this thread I think I might be able to pass a closed book NATOPS exam!

If you write eject on the F-16 immediate action items you will at least score a 50%

 

[pilot_man]

Here's another thing to take into account: The F-16 is rate command while the F-18 is g command. In the F-16 (Viper, Fighting Falcon, whatevs), movement of the control stick generates a rate in that direction. So you pull back on the stick and the aircraft moves up at a predetermined rate. You pull back on the stick more and there's a higher rate. Same in the other axis. While this seems normal (more pull = more movement), there are some different nuances between rate command and your standard aircraft. For example, you roll into a dive delivery and with the nose pointed at the target and you release the controls, it won't move. You're not commanding a rate out of the aircraft so it'll keep going that direction.

In the F-18, it's g command meaning movement of the control stick increases (or decreases) g loading. You pull the stick back more you increase the g (and turn rate, etc). Again, this seems normal but now you go back to the dive delivery and when you roll on the target the nose wants to wander upwards. The reason is that in a dive you're at less than 1g so the aircraft is trying to achieve 1g. That's where trim comes into play.

Rate commanded systems are more prone to "ratcheting" or sampling because movement of the stick doesn't feel natural so you're trying to find the right amount. When I flew it, I had the same issue and it took a little bit getting used to. The narrow wheel base of the F-16 doesn't help either on landing (I bounced it left to right a couple times).

I think the F-16 is rate command with the gear down as well, but changes when you open the refueling door and goes to AOA command. This is your more traditional aircraft control logic and feels mostly like a conventional aircraft. The F-18 is AOA command with the gear down which makes it easier to land (especially when you're doing AOA approaches) and again, feels like a more conventional aircraft. The Mirage (2000D), is g command at all times however, has it's own nuance of increased stick forces when AOA goes above 15-17. I think that's more warning for getting slow than for landing itself. It has it's own landing issues in of itself but the g command system doesn't help either.

Hope that all makes sense.

Isn't there a difference between the Rhino and Charlie when it comes to the rate of movement vs. the distance of movement? I know I've discussed that when talking about the differences of landing the two at the boat but I never pay any attention to it. I just move the stick back until I've moved it enough. I don't know the difference between how fast I move the stick or how far I move it.

 

[AUtiger]

I believe it's the distance or magnitude for Charlie ATC and rate for Rhino. I like you just moved the stick rapidly enough to not fly through down all the time. Granted I flew manual in the chuck and auto in the rhino.

 

[xj220]

Isn't there a difference between the Rhino and Charlie when it comes to the rate of movement vs. the distance of movement? I know I've discussed that when talking about the differences of landing the two at the boat but I never pay any attention to it. I just move the stick back until I've moved it enough. I don't know the difference between how fast I move the stick or how far I move it.

I don't know, honestly. I'm just a P-3 guy. My guess is probably but I'm sure the Rhino was designed to fly similar to Legacies so overall it's probably not too different. I'll defer to those that have flown both though.

 

[Farva01]

Isn't there a difference between the Rhino and Charlie when it comes to the rate of movement vs. the distance of movement? I know I've discussed that when talking about the differences of landing the two at the boat but I never pay any attention to it. I just move the stick back until I've moved it enough. I don't know the difference between how fast I move the stick or how far I move it.

It concerns the auto throttle mech in the landing pattern. "Butters" Radocaj wrote a good article in the Paddles Monthly newsletter back in 2010.
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4558.0;attach=12220

To summarize: in the Charlie power addition on the ball in auto throttles is based on how far you move the stick in the Rhino it is based on how fast you move the stick.

 

[MIDNJAC]

^^ Great article(s). Thanks Farva
(filing away into my "bag of tricks" should I go back to the fleet as a Rhino guy)

 

[sevenhelmet]

I believe it's the distance or magnitude for Charlie ATC and rate for Rhino. I like you just moved the stick rapidly enough to not fly through down all the time. Granted I flew manual in the chuck and auto in the rhino.

Wow this thread has drifted (guilty as charged).

Outside of ATC techniques, there is no significant difference in stick response that I've noticed or heard of. I think the Charlie "feels" snappier, mostly due to slightly higher roll performance. Throttle response in the Rhino is slightly more "precise", i.e. the power response is slightly faster than the chuck, so I tend to seesaw the throttles slightly less. I've noticed that while flying form and tanking, but I've never taken the Rhino to the boat, so I don't know about differences there.

 

[ChuckMK23]

OK the program is official - NAVAIR ECP 6840 "Navy Flight Demonstration Squadron Super Hornet Conversion". The Blues current inventory today is 3 x A's, 15 x C's, 1 X B, and 2 X D's. All will be replaced with E's or F's to match current inventory of 1 and 2 seaters.

 

[wink]

OK the program is official - NAVAIR ECP 6840 "Navy Flight Demonstration Squadron Super Hornet Conversion". The Blues current inventory today is 3 x A's, 15 x C's, 1 X B, and 2 X D's. All will be replaced with E's or F's to match current inventory of 1 and 2 seaters.

Holy cow! That is the Blues inventory? I never remember seeing that many aircraft outside their hangar when I was in Pcola 79-80. Hard to believe they can't pare that back.

 

[jmcquate]

Holy cow! That is the Blues inventory? I never remember seeing that many aircraft outside their hangar when I was in Pcola 79-80. Hard to believe they can't pare that back.

I'm guessing some of those airframes are out at El Centro being converted to Blue jets and will be used as replacements for the upcoming season.

 

[Flash]

Holy cow! That is the Blues inventory? I never remember seeing that many aircraft outside their hangar when I was in Pcola 79-80. Hard to believe they can't pare that back.

They always seemed to have 4-6 extra when I went through P'cola both times, I imagine the others might be in depot.

 

[wink]

Maybe the venerable scooters they were using when I went through Pensacola were just more reliable.

 

[Flash]

Maybe the venerable scooters they were using when I went through Pensacola were just more reliable.

They also had less to play with since they weren't frontline aircraft when you went through (the Marines only flew A-4M's with the hump by then). You actually had to look close to get the number, they usually had 7-9 on the flight line, some without numbers and another 2-3 in the hangar.

 

[nittany03]

Holy cow! That is the Blues inventory? I never remember seeing that many aircraft outside their hangar when I was in Pcola 79-80. Hard to believe they can't pare that back.

Well, I guess it's nice to have spares when you're headed to Podunk, IA. Wonder how their maintenance shell game works. Do they rotate jets with numbers on the tail or cannibalize the shit out of a few hangar queens to feed the flyers?

 

[Flash]

Well, I guess it's nice to have spares when you're headed to Podunk, IA. Wonder how their maintenance shell game works. Do they rotate jets with numbers on the tail or cannibalize the shit out of a few hangar queens to feed the flyers?

I got the impression they did both.