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Boston Marathon Terrorists Engaged.

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Context is key. Those of you posting about "more experience with LEO than you" come from one perspective, and those presenting the dark side of LEO's come from another.......Personally, if only my perspective were considered, LEOs fall into only one category: almost useless. Can't catch the jackoff that did a hit & run on your car while leaving their front bumper as evidence, can't catch the robbers that broke into your mother's house and left fingerprints everywhere, can't find anything better to do than pull you over for no reason on a lazy Sunday and then lie to your face (and to the four others in your car) only to give you a warning, and etc.......Based solely on my own experience, I know to avoid certain small fiefdoms (call counties by the locals, but really run by the medieval lords calling themselves county judges) in some areas of Oklahoma due to the absurd corruption in the ranks of the local cops. Based on other anecdotes, I know to avoid whole areas of the country where the cops pose a significant threat to your person and/or property--like all of Delaware near I-95/I-295, and all westbound Interstates through Tennessee, and some others.

I have had experience with cops across the country with me being on the 'wrong' side through a few traffic stops, I will be the first to admit I have a lead foot. But in all but one or two of those cases the police have been professional and courteous, I had no problems interacting with them and even the one exception I can think of off the top of my head the cop defaulted on the side of caution and I can't fault him too much for that.

With attitudes like most cops are "almost useless", "useless as tits on a bull", "pose a significant threat" or are absurdly corrupt I am not so sure it is the cops you and some others here apparently encounter are the only ones to blame for your bad encounters with law enforcement.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Did you actually read the crap you wrote?

I don't know if you actually believe the bullshit above but if you do it is a little bit paranoid. There are certainly cops out there that are assholes but the vast majority I have encountered, known and worked with are folks that are just trying to 'protect and serve' and not power mad jerks trying to make life difficult for the average citizen.

Your little rant reminds of the guys who talk about the only reason they got busted was because some cop/CO/Chief/LPO/'The Man' had it out for them. In many cases they did, because they broke the rules and/or law.
Well, I will say this: the times when I've been legitimately pulled over the police were always respectful and professional. However, I am white, have a military sticker and sheriff sticker on my car and have a PBA card. I think that a minority driving an older car with no family in military or law enforcement would have a different experience on at least one occasion. Just listening to my brother tell "sea stories" makes me think he has created a negative interaction on more than one occasion, but it's ok because he decided the guy was guilty and can't believe he's back out on the street 2 days later.

I recognize that most cops do their stressful jobs in a professional manner. However, the minority that don't are ubiquitous and there is nothing a private citizen can do to seek recourse. That's what makes it particularly frustrating. The automatic assumption is that the person must have been up to no good anyway, or he should've just listened and opened up his trunk, so he deserved to be given a hard time by police. If I call the local precinct to report a cop who was speeding or turned on his lights just to run a light because he can, the report wouldn't get past the officer who answered the phone. Like the military the police is a pseudo fraternity that will protect their brothers and extend "professional courtesy" for any wrongdoings.

My comment about the car theft was to point out that there are many crimes where police can't really do anything about it, and was in response to R1's post about not calling the police as if that was going to be a detriment to me. Unless the crime is high profile (murder, kidnapping, rape) or you can identify a suspect, they can't do anything for you. The only person who can prevent becoming a victim is yourself.

And you'll have to excuse me for being just a little bitter that police in the 80s put a higher priority on arresting someone (usually in a low income neighborhood) with drugs on them than someone who beats his wife.

The vast majority of people in jail are there for drug charges. That is what beat cops find most often when stopping people and why I commented that they often arrest people for crimes that arguably shouldn't be illegal. But these aren't the same police officers who investigate the aforementioned higher profile cases, at least not where my family works. The guy working to catch a suspect for a crime is invaluable; the guy driving around arresting people on marijuana possession charges not so much.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The police have no probable cause to believe there is a terror suspect in anyone's house just based on the suspect's last known location. I don't know about you, but I don't want to spend a half hour on my front lawn while police search my house the next time a multiple homicide offender is on the loose. I don't have a meth lab or secret weed stash, either. The 4th amendment isn't about protecting criminals, no matter how many cynical prosecutors and police officers think it is. It is common sense to not allow police to conduct door-to-door property searches to catch a criminal, even if he's a mass murderer.
Probable cause was not necessary in this case based on the well establish constitutional case law allowing for a "public safety exception". You want to debate whether or not this came under a public safety exception, fine. But get off probable cause.

Also, if police enter your house to look for a person and see illegal contraband on the table, they can arrest you under the plain view doctrine. They probably won't in lieu of pursuing the murderer, but they can.
Entirely correct on this point. Conversely the fruit of the poison tree is excluded. If an officer comes into a house illegally for one reason and then finds evidence of an unrelated second crime, evidence of the second crime will be excluded by the courts as well.
 

SkywardET

Contrarian
I have had experience with cops across the country with me being on the 'wrong' side through a few traffic stops, I will be the first to admit I have a lead foot. But in all but one or two of those cases the police have been professional and courteous, I had no problems interacting with them and even the one exception I can think of off the top of my head the cop defaulted on the side of caution and I can't fault him too much for that.

With attitudes like most cops are "almost useless", "useless as tits on a bull", "pose a significant threat" or are absurdly corrupt I am not so sure it is the cops you and some others here apparently encounter are the only ones to blame for your bad encounters with law enforcement.
While you lack certainty in who is to blame for my few experiences with police officers, I do not. I do lack certainty that you understood my post, however, your quoting and bolding notwithstanding.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor

You were saying?
So what makes you think these people had their house searched involuntarily, the fact they have their hands up (keeping in mind it would be legal even if it was involuntary under the exceptions)? You will be treated like a suspect in any unknown circumstance. People removed from active shooter scenes come out with hand up. Lots of that video online, unfortunately. If you are ever unfortunate enough to be on a hijacked plane, I guarantee you that when the FBI HRT or SWAT comes on you will be handled with a great deal of vigor and suspicion, including hands up. I see nothing here but reasonable safety centered behavior in pursuit of a suspect that showed wanton disregard for public safety and a positive deadly threat to police.
 

Angry

NFO in Jax
None
Well, I will say this: the times when I've been legitimately pulled over the police were always respectful and professional. However, I am white, have a military sticker and sheriff sticker on my car and have a PBA card. I think that a minority driving an older car with no family in military or law enforcement would have a different experience on at least one occasion. Just listening to my brother tell "sea stories" makes me think he has created a negative interaction on more than one occasion, but it's ok because he decided the guy was guilty and can't believe he's back out on the street 2 days later.

I recognize that most cops do their stressful jobs in a professional manner. However, the minority that don't are ubiquitous and there is nothing a private citizen can do to seek recourse. That's what makes it particularly frustrating. The automatic assumption is that the person must have been up to no good anyway, or he should've just listened and opened up his trunk, so he deserved to be given a hard time by police. If I call the local precinct to report a cop who was speeding or turned on his lights just to run a light because he can, the report wouldn't get past the officer who answered the phone. Like the military the police is a pseudo fraternity that will protect their brothers and extend "professional courtesy" for any wrongdoings.

Just out of curiosity, do you put the sticker on your car and keep the PBA card just in case you get pulled over? Do you expect some extra degree of accommodation or leniency because you have them? Because if so, you're trying to benefit from the same "fraternity" and "professional courtesy" you're complaining of.
 

hlg6016

A/C Wings Here
Here's my 2 cents on the whole situation we had in Boston last week, this is coming from an old fart who lives with his family in Boston. First fact I have to learn to live with is these terrorists chose my home town to make their attack in. Open to the public no access control events I have avoided for years in fear of this. Now me and my family have to face this reality and learn to adjust our lives to it. Second fact is that these f#@*ers had to be found, that mindset was shared by the citizens and the cops. The door to door searching did not happen in my neighborhood, but if they did knock on my door for a consent search, that's fine. They can look under my bed or in my cellar i don't have a meth lab or any dead babies to hide and they have a terrorist to find. All said and done last week was not ordinary circumstances everyone was asked to cooperate to meet the end result. That result was met.
 

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
So what makes you think these people had their house searched involuntarily, the fact they have their hands up (keeping in mind it would be legal even if it was involuntary under the exceptions)? You will be treated like a suspect in any unknown circumstance. People removed from active shooter scenes come out with hand up. Lots of that video online, unfortunately. If you are ever unfortunate enough to be on a hijacked plane, I guarantee you that when the FBI HRT or SWAT comes on you will be handled with a great deal of vigor and suspicion, including hands up. I see nothing here but reasonable safety centered behavior in pursuit of a suspect that showed wanton disregard for public safety and a positive deadly threat to police.

I dunno, the banging on the door, the platoon of swatted up black suited dudes pointing guns at them, the clearing of the house. Whether they willingly submit to this or not is irrelevant.

I do know that Police officers will not enter my home sans warrant or battering ram. I also keep more than a few good lawyers on speed dial.

I'm not a particularly unlawful person, but I also don't particularly trust the good intentions/greater good/public security apparatus of our government.

You have your opinions on the power of the state, I have mine and the convictions and means to attempt to defend them.

Neither of us are going to convince the other he's wrong, so I'll let it lie.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I do know that Police officers will not enter my home sans warrant or battering ram. I also keep more than a few good lawyers on speed dial.

I certainly understand the sentiment. I am even, believe it or not, a fellow traveler, as it were. Because I share your instincts, it is fortunate I don't have to use a speed dial to speak with a 20+ year civil rights litigator with experience in just these matters. I just give her a nudge in the morning. Let me just suggest, very strongly, that you use that speed dial and have a good long consultation about the law and the sort of circumstances where the police may take legal action that comes short of a warrant. Should you not get that consultation prior to a dynamic encounter with the police at your home, do as they say, and then call the lawyer. Anything less will likely get you arrested and/or someone hurt. Lawful orders must be obeyed. Better have a crystal clear idea what a lawful order is in every conceivable circumstance. Sadly, it is more complicated than the words of the 4th Amendment.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
My comment about the car theft was to point out that there are many crimes where police can't really do anything about it, and was in response to R1's post about not calling the police as if that was going to be a detriment to me.
FML…I never said any such thing. Anyone who calls the police is usually a victim or a coherent/believable witness. Unless you think the "Blue Meanies" are out to get you…in which case, hunker down in the safe room, I guess...
 

SkywardET

Contrarian
...I know to avoid whole areas of the country where the cops pose a significant threat to your person and/or property--like all of Delaware near I-95/I-295, and all westbound Interstates through Tennessee, and some others.

Came across this video of a local news story and it reminded me of this conversation. Just thought I'd reinforce the point, lest people of this forum travel west through Tennessee unawares.
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
While we PCS'ed fron KNUW to KNSE I got pulled over on I-40 just as I entered Oklahoma headed eastbound pulling my horse trailer. Wind was blowing outta the south at 30, and the Statie said "I saw you cross the white line."

I said "No shit; It's windy, I'm pulling 8,000 pounds of horse and steel, and your roads suck, what can I do for you officer?"

He asked if I'd been drinking (1300 on a Tuesday)...

Said "Nope, just out of state, what can I help you with?"

He asked why, saw the military ID, and left, never really told me what he wanted...

Guess I didn't fit the "profile"

Pickle
 
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