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bunghole with laser busted
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For the most part Posse Comitatus refers to the actual "enforcing" of the law. That is, making the arrest, bringing someone to trail. These days, it isn't unusual for the military to help out LE, usually with sensors. If you "see" something and report it so that LE shows up and can make an arrest on the information available to them when they roll up, no biggie. If they need you, or the record of what you "see", a bigger deal, but it could be done. It isn't like you have Blue Thunder like capabilities to see through walls and violate someones constitutional rights under the color of law. Oh, and lasing of LE aircraft has gone up by nearly two fold every year the last three years or so. It is a huge problem. That is why the cops would love to bust anyone that hassles you guys.
You would think that, however there was a new "rule," "mandate," "not sure what the right word is" that was brought up in the last year that decrees .mil assets not record and/or image U.S. personnel. It's obviously got more details than that, ie don't record legal acts of citizens, but it does raise some operational issues if you're running a sensor on someone. I guess as long as you delete/erase the tape, you're good.
It's definitely dated, but ~2004, there was a guy lasing aircraft from Kaneohe and the FBI were on scene trying to catch the guy. One of my squadron's helos were in the pattern at the time and asked if they could assist. I think at one point they were in a hover over the jackass directing agents to the location. Totally cool, as far as I'm concerned from a pilot's perspective, but probably not all that legal from the Posse perspective.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
I agree with whoever said to just lase his ass. Who's he going to complain to? Don't tape it.
Oh....but it would show up in the ultra-accurate and believable laser firing log. Right.
Oh....but it would show up in the ultra-accurate and believable laser firing log. Right.
Laser firing log:
6 times in the R2507S at target 3S on a heading of 110, each one minute in duration.
oh yeah, then while in the landing pattern,
1 time to sear the retinas of some douchebag in his backyard, one minute in duration.
6 times in the R2507S at target 3S on a heading of 110, each one minute in duration.
oh yeah, then while in the landing pattern,
1 time to sear the retinas of some douchebag in his backyard, one minute in duration.
If there has been some new direction, or even law, on recording us citizens I am unaware of it. Certainly civil libertarians wouldn't want a long time record of citizens actions kept by the military. But then you active guys are in a better position to know. It doesn't mean a thing to me whopping around in a helo with a star on the side. But it is my experience that most guys are totally misinformed on posse cometatus. Just because you are in the military doesn't mean you can't be a good citizen and help law enforcement incidental to your mission. The incident described above by gatordev is totally cool and I am sure not in violation of posse cometatus. Now if your squadron coordinated with LE and had occasion to land and detain folks at the direction of LE. That would be over the line.
It seems like the intent and scope of posse cometatus has evolved since it was originally enacted. I found this article earlier today, if the author is correct the use of military assets to enforce civil law has become more common in recent history.
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/trebilcock.htm
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/trebilcock.htm
I'm trying to remember where this came from, but I think it was from USFF. I don't think it was a law but a policy that was put out. With the particular mission that my last squadron focused on (LE), it was something that we were made aware of. Now if the subject to be taped wasn't U.S. flagged...sky's the limit.
While PC was part of the concern in my scenario above (I thought it was a sketchy action, legally speaking, but I understand what you're saying), I think the other concern was damage caused by the big gray helo hovering over some Hawaiian meth shack at night w/ light poles, etc everywhere. I can see where that might exceed a CO's comfort level. Again, I think it's cool that they got the guy and helped, but I understand the reservations.
Thinking too much like a hinge. Who cares? You don't write the check.
At my new job, I've endured a few hours of CBT's explaining the laws on surveillance/intel gathering of US citizens. Assisting LE is perrmissable, but there are hoops that need to be jumped. I would think a JAG could guide a wing/squadron on how to make it all kosher. If you want the short brief, I can point you to it on the NIPR/SIPR. Need a CaC card to see it though...
Or just lase his ass and move on. A buddy of mine was spotlighted at whitehouse during a night bounce back in '08. I believe the guy got a year in jail for it. The Sherrif was very proactive in catching him!
Or just lase his ass and move on. A buddy of mine was spotlighted at whitehouse during a night bounce back in '08. I believe the guy got a year in jail for it. The Sherrif was very proactive in catching him!