Calling all engineers

[nugget61]

There must be people that get A's and high B's, but if an engineer only appears to understand only 72% of what he or she is supposed to have been taught, is he (or she) really that useful in comparison to us mere mortals? I understand it's a curve, yes, just the mentality that is odd to me.

I'm no engineer, but I take some technical classes. I find that sometimes the best solution is to study harder and not "smarter;" practice problems until I've seen every scenario and know how to work through them. And I sleep on it so the paint has time to cure...

The FE exam only requires ~70% to pass. Granted that covers more than just your discipline of study, but they seem to think its a good number.

 

[twobecrazy]

There must be people that get A's and high B's, but if an engineer only appears to understand only 72% of what he or she is supposed to have been taught, is he (or she) really that useful in comparison to us mere mortals? I understand it's a curve, yes, just the mentality that is odd to me.

I'm no engineer, but I take some technical classes. I find that sometimes the best solution is to study harder and not "smarter;" practice problems until I've seen every scenario and know how to work through them. And I sleep on it so the paint has time to cure...

I would say most of the engineering students I have met do not have the same "Social" life that everyone else in college appears to have. They all study extremely hard! Now like every major there are exceptions to the rule but if you look at "most" engineering students they study more than your average college student. So my question to you in return is would you take an engineer that knows only 72% of what he or she is supposed to have been taught? Or would you prefer your definition of mere mortals to build your bridges, design your vehicle so you survive a 70 mph car accident, or design the computer system you are utilizing? I agree with you for the most part but I would still prefer an engineer that only knows 72% versus a basket weaver to build/design something for me (except maybe the basket) or just in general. My reason for this is because the dedication it takes to be an engineering student is on par in my opinion with the dedication it takes to be a pilot, NFO, doctor, or lawyer. Plus the hardest thing to teach anyone is problem solving skills and that is the engineers bread and butter. I am in no way actually trying to compare the difficulties it takes to be a pilot, NFO, doctor, or lawyer as they are all different. I am just trying to emphasize that to be an engineering student requires tons of dedication in and out of class. Just my opinon.

 

[eddie]

So my question to you in return is would you take an engineer that knows only 72% of what he or she is supposed to have been taught? Or would you prefer your definition of mere mortals to build your bridges, design your vehicle so you survive a 70 mph car accident, or design the computer system you are utilizing? I agree with you for the most part but I would still prefer an engineer that only knows 72% versus a basket weaver to build/design something for me (except maybe the basket) or just in general.

I don't doubt that curved 72% (or even a regular 72%!) is competent (as opposed to "enough to be dangerous" ), just that I'm fuzzy on the rationale behind a curve in the first place.

 

[twobecrazy]

I don't doubt that curved 72% (or even a regular 72%!) is competent (as opposed to "enough to be dangerous" ), just that I'm fuzzy on the rationale behind a curve in the first place.

I think it is because as I said previously that the instructors have some sort of bet to see who is the most difficult. LOL! I truly believe that it is because that they ask problems too difficult on tests and give too many problems on our tests. Being at a research university they ask questions that they might not even know the answer to right then but later on will go and solve the problems for themselves. I have experienced this several times as well and it is apparent when they say that later on they will post the answer online as I don't have it or need to think about it! I will tell you as far as the curve is concerned I have watched several individuals that are in senior standing with 4.0 and already accepted grad work be going into a final with a "true" F along with everyone else. Obviously at the end of the day after the curve these individuals are still doing better than the average of the class. As I implied earlier I hate this form of grading. One of my finals last year my teacher made up "imaginary" problems on circuits we never have done in HW, tests, or were even in the book. He literally made them up in which we had to use the imaginary number system to try and solve for the circuits being identified. The entire final was like that. I said screw it and just wrote everything I learned in the class that semester and ran out of time after 3 hours. I could have written more. I ended up with a C in the class while truly failing the entire time.

 

[Jim123]

Ummm, 72% depends on what material is on the test. Engineering exams generally leave the easy stuff off. It's not like a grade school spelling test with equal credit for easy, medium, and hard words. Does the bar exam give credit for knowing the basic definitions of defense and prosecution? Does an MD board waste time asking prospective doctors to recite the basic blood types and explain the differences between viruses, germs, and bacteria? I doubt it...

Anyway, take some comfort in that junior engineers aren't solely responsible for designing every last detail of a bridge that might or might not fall down any more than nugget aviators are responsible for leading complex missions deep into enemy territory.

 

[BACONATOR]

Hmmm... study habits or how to work smarter, not harder. Well here's what worked for me. Maybe you already do half this stuff anyway-

-Study 45 minutes on, 15 off, repeat, repeat, repeat. Use an alarm to regulate it if you have to. Do your laundry/dishes/go to the can/talk to your roommates who are watching TV in the other room in the 15 minutes off. Better yet study in an empty classroom because that will get you away from the computer and TV.

-Learn to take REALLY GOOD notes in class. I used to write in blue, underline important stuff in red, formulas in green, diagrams in black. Then in the evening copy the days' notes and chicken scratch into a "smooth" version. Having to write things out a second time is a great way to reinforce that days' lessons. I recently found a 3rd year thermo notebook with my name on it and apparently written in my handwriting... but I swear somebody smarter than me must have made this notebook (I'm a clutter-all-around-the-house/scatterbrained kind of person).

-When you study in small groups take turns working through the homework problems on the chalkboard. The better your knowledge the faster you can solve the test problems. You'll also get a better idea of how far ahead or behind you are.

-Once in a while if you're having a really hard time wrapping your brain around some difficult concept try thinking about it when you first wake up- your mind is fresh and sometimes things can just come to you more easily in that time... or if that's just not you then ignore this one point.

-Don't forget the importance of good rest: proper sleep every night and some time off each weekend (yes, even during exams!).

I earned more As in my last semester than my other four years put together... I guess I was just a late bloomer. It looks like you are actually "get" written communication and that is a huge "plus."


Hope some of that helps, good luck.
Jim

Jesus, REALLY? Good on ya! I never had that kind of willpower, organization or motivation.

 

[yakboyslim]

Jesus, REALLY? Good on ya! I never had that kind of willpower, organization or motivation.

Me neither. I've always wondered if I struggled in a class if I would be able to make it at all. Of course all kidding aside I would hunker down and do what needed to be done, but just thinking about taking notes... neatly... twice, scares the heck out of me.

 

[yakboyslim]

One of my finals last year my teacher made up "imaginary" problems on circuits we never have done in HW, tests, or were even in the book. He literally made them up in which we had to use the imaginary number system to try and solve for the circuits being identified. The entire final was like that. I said screw it and just wrote everything I learned in the class that semester and ran out of time after 3 hours. I could have written more. I ended up with a C in the class while truly failing the entire time.

Aren't imaginary numbers part of the game with circuits? I am pretty sure anything with capacitors or inductors is gonna use them in the solution. Maybe your prof did not prepare you, but in my experience imaginary numbers are fair game for anything. That being said circuits was my worst grade ever...

 

[eddie]

I will tell you as far as the curve is concerned I have watched several individuals that are in senior standing with 4.0 and already accepted grad work be going into a final with a "true" F along with everyone else. [...] I ended up with a C in the class while truly failing the entire time.

Thanks for the clarifications; merely curious. I've certainly taken a couple classes where we were designed to fail, but made out ok in the end; it just wasn't written out for us.

 

[sickboy]

Find someone who knows what they're doing and stick to them like glue. Office hours are your friend also.

 

[twobecrazy]

Aren't imaginary numbers part of the game with circuits? I am pretty sure anything with capacitors or inductors is gonna use them in the solution. Maybe your prof did not prepare you, but in my experience imaginary numbers are fair game for anything. That being said circuits was my worst grade ever...

Yeah they are in some respects mainly concerning caps and inductors, however, when you put them into a circuit as you said and your teacher doesn't prepare you for it becomes exponentially harder. Our first introduction to imaginary caps and inductors was 2 class periods prior to the final. The problem wasn't the caps and inductors he had some sources dependant/independant imaginary and non imaginary, some caps, resistors, and inductors were and were not as well along with several other problems in the circuit. Basically it was a soup sandwich. I felt like a controlled drowning victim. Caps and inductors are not always going to be imaginary in your solution because it depends on the problem you are working on. You are right with imaginary numbers being fair game for anything as I have experienced that numerous times which seems to always complicate the problems further for me because it seems that they are few and far between so lack of practice is the true problem.

 

[twobecrazy]

Thanks for the clarifications; merely curious. I've certainly taken a couple classes where we were designed to fail, but made out ok in the end; it just wasn't written out for us.

True and that always seems to be the case... Then again who would go to a school that is advertising I will try and fail you but if you put a good enough effort towards understanding the subject matter I might give you a C!

 

[VulcanRider]

I can't speak for other schools, but what made it difficult at my school was that English wasn't the first language for most professors. On top of that, they were hired for research and to expand the schools reputation through development, not to teach. Most of my degree was learned straight from the book. Classes didn't really do anything for me my last two years. It was only in the engineering school where the teaching sucked. Outside of engineering all the teachers were great, and I actually learned more in class.

 

[JhwK08]

Our first introduction to imaginary caps and inductors was 2 class periods prior to the final. .

Sounds like you had a crappy prof. We had imaginary stuff introduced in the first 3 weeks.

 

[llnick2001]

Crush practice problems like it's your job. I didn't start doing well at aero till I cracked the code on that one.