Capt James Kirk, USS ZUMWALT

[Uncle Fester]

...from being an actual 'full up round.'"

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Well, guessing the pivot point of such a hulk is about midship, so it will take at least two tugs for mooring, better three. Right?

 

[azguy]

CRUDES ships in the USN routinely use two tugs for docking. We train for less optimal conditions but it's not worth the risk in most cases.

Two of the contract tugs we use in CONUS and at our overseas bases are powerful enough to easily handle DDG-1000. It's entirely possible that other accommodations could be made at overseas ports without the same resources.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Ok, I've just imagined me to conn this hull and - given that pivot point on Russian ships is near the pilothouse and not amidship like here - I'd prefer to have three tugs: two usual forward and aft and third one to hold the bow steady, especially on leeward mooring. Need to have uncommon skill to count the long "ramming" bow's movement. Well, just thoughts about:-D

 

[azguy]

The pivot point is very dynamic while docking, in any ship, especially with tugs made up, and thus isn't a major consideration when we're talking fractions of a knot of closure to the pier. With tugs cast off and in the channel, with steady headway, the pivot point is relatively static and then becomes an important consideration when maneuvering close aboard to buoys, other vessels, or when making a turn into the slip.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Right, but I got used to the solid wind drift due to the massive superstructures of our ships so PP was important enough in ports, too - given that we used only one tug routinely or cope out by ourselves. Two tugs were common only in foreign ports. Anyway, it seems to me that mooring this Z-DD has more common with LHA mooring than with Crudes ships

 

[azguy]

You're wrong. Not in terms of shiphandling it seems, but in your lack of knowledge of how the USN does business. USN uses two tugs routinely as I've already told you. ZULWALT-class will be no different. Though ZUMWALT is ~50% larger than a Burke, she is still clearly a CRUDES... She's 85% smaller than a CVN and 65% smaller than an LHD.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

No objections indeed. I have no experience with USN ships and only a couple of hours with USCG during the the joint exercise (then available) - been on board of USCGC WMEC-912 Legare in 1996 when she visited Baltics (been amazed by the fact that real plotting has been done by petty-officers instead of commissioned officers, by the way). Nor I have ever been on USN active aircraft carrier or LHD. Repeat, just thoughts. Look, a question in a different way: are USN CRUDES officer billets still considered as the best career path for SWOs? I mean, some new small combattants like LCS aren't supposedly CRUDES and the number of SWO billets on gators is increasing - is it a threat to CRUDES top position in SWOs' careers?

 

[azguy]

LCS are basically considered CRUDES for career path purposes - most/all of our LCS COs that have selected for O-6 major command have done so in the CRUDES track (DESRON or Cruiser CO). You're wrong about increasing SWO billets on LHDs; but amphibs remain a "separate but equal" pipeline in the community as they get a fair share of major command billets. BL: there's no 'best path' except possibly at the flag level; doing well at sea, in any platform, is the key to success.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Ok thanks, to ZUMWALT again. Her CO's billet is for full Capt AFAIK, like on a cruiser. The same rank for CO is on a new Brits destroyers of Daring class, but they don't have any other ships of a DDG class anymore, while USN has a plenty of Burkes. Do we have another mess in classification and Z-ships are cruisers actually?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

You're wrong about increasing SWO billets on LHDs; but amphibs remain a "separate but equal" pipeline in the community as they get a fair share of major command billets.

I have read USN personnell official report of 1992, when CRUDES were regarded as the best career path for SWOs, "others", from MCM to CVN, the second best, and "amphibs" of all kind - the worst career for SWO. The time at sea and the areas where SWO can lead loud and clear, i.e. without handicaps from other societies, were the two fields of scores. Maybe it is irrelevant nowadays, isn't it?