D_Rob
Lead LTJG
I thought civil aircraft couldn't have ejection seats?
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Cessna makes emergency landing at navy base
- Thread starter rrpilot
- Start date
I thought civil aircraft couldn't have ejection seats?
Lots of former military ejection seat aircraft out there on airshow/racing circuit, on commercial services contracts and even pay per ride stuff.
I have a vague memory that civil aircraft can have ejection seats (and there are at least a couple of companies that offer maint/depot services), but the FAA has such stringent requirements for them that most owners don't bother. The UK and Commonwealth FAA-equivalents don't regulate civilian ejection seats, so operating seats are more commonly found on civilian warbirds there.
I know of at least a few civilian owned L-39's that had hot seats re-installed after they were removed when they were imported to the U.S.
Self induced or actual lost comm?
I crashed in a C-310 @ an AFB ...
Story?
When I was a student at Whiting in '68 (VT-2, T-28's) we had a civilian pilot in a Beech Bonanza land on one of the runways. The wheels watch at the approach end was trying his best to wave him off but the guy's wife in the right seat thought they were just being friendly and waved as the a/c touched down (and was met by security). He thought he was somewhere else and had no idea what he was doing. In the meantime guys screaming into the break where being told to depart the pattern and what a mess it would have been had there been a midair.
If you can't keep enough SA to know where you are on the VFR sectional at a hundred knots just because your radio goes TU then aviation probably isn't for you.
It's will continue to be a problem, IMHO. With all the technology in GA cockpits flight schools are turning out airplane drivers, not pilots. I've flown with people that own Cirrus a/c that have traffic systems and they will stare at the glass saying a plane is two miles away at three o'clock, and never look outside on a VFR day. These planes are designed to be flown by autopilot from just after takeoff to just before touchdown. When something goes wrong they pull the aircraft parachute rather than fly the plane. Just because they have the money to buy their $600K airplane doens't mean they know how to fly...
rrpilot
Member
Agree 100%
As a GA pilot I can honestly say people like that drive me crazy, in addition to making the rest of us look bad. I had about 100hrs when I moved to Binghamton and decided to get a renter check-out at Aero-techniques and happened upon the owner who really taught me to fly! He made me turn off the GPS and taught me what rudder pedals are for. I had no idea that I was a driver, not a pilot...I was shooting the breeze with an acquaintance the other day who was about to depart on a short cross country..about 100mi. The wind was almost perpendicular to his course and quite strong...He seemed alittle puzzled that the flight would be 'longer than usual'. I made some offhand remark about wind correction angles and he just kinda gave me the 'deer in the headlights' look, it became obvious that he really was vague on the whole concept...then I asked if he did a flight plan and he pulled out the computer generated Nav Log from AOPA's flight planner...which I use alot as a backup and to check my navigation math...It was obvious he let the computer do the math and he was just gonna program the course into the GPS...
As for his 'flight planning' skills, as long as his GPS is ok and he doesn't need to do any pilotage for a divert I guess all will be well...
Unbelievable. Part of the whole experience for me is making my log, spinning the wind, and hitting my waypoints within 30 to 45 seconds of the time I planned. To me it's like a sport. If anything you should do it because it's gratifying and makes you feel kinda smart. Pilotage and dead reckoning are the name of the game (in GA anyway). If you can't do that then you'll never be ready when it's time to shoot an NDB approach after your gps tanks.
Spot on. Which is why my private studs don't get to use a gps when I'm teaching them XC's. Sectional chart, whiz wheel, compass and watch are all you need on a VFR flight. Because the GPS will go tango uniform at some point...
Edit: I even teach spin entry and recovery to my private studs because I want them to know how to avoid the accidental spin. I'm a huge believer in stick and rudder skills.
rrpilot
Member
Once again agree 100%...if people wanna keep their heads in the GPS all the time they can save 100$ an hour and just play 'Flight Simulator'...Hell, that's one of the reasons that I fly because I wanna look out the window and see cool stuff!
I'm a firm believer in spin training but there is a huge debate going on right now on the AOPA forum about it, I say right now because it seems about every 6 months someone brings it up and the whole thing starts all over as if it hasn't been discussed ad-nauseum...This also periodically occurs on the subjects of see&avoid and traffic patterns at non-controlled fields..lol
http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=60378
I agree with the above sentiments... There however is a fine line between teaching someone how to use the whiz bang tools that come in many airplanes these days, and allowing them to rely on them.
I think the truth is that most experienced aviators do 'rely' on all the high tech stuff to get the job done, but when shit hits the fan and all the MFDs and instrumentation bites the dust, the experienced aviator can calmly and confidently fall back on his skillset of dead reckoning, pilotage, or just common sense to get on deck.
If you take one of these rich yuppies that has 60 hrs total time of relying on his $400,000 avionics package with wings to get him on deck after the the lights go out, he'd probably get lost over the airfield he's trying to land at.
Back in college I back seated a solo checkride that left out of New Smyrna Beach. It was one of the all glass Cessna 172s. We went out to the area, executed the stall series, etc, and the instructor turned off the big ole mfds and placed a card over the VOR and said great, now take me home. Now, New Smyrna Beach, is oddly enough, ON THE COAST of Florida. The area we were operating in was South along the coast. All the student had to due, was look at the ocean, figure out figure out which way North was, point his titties in that direction and we would've gone straight home. Hell, he even had a 50/50 shot of which way North was. Even easier, he could've relied on the wet compass that the instructor WASNT covering up.
After about 10 miles of heading SOUTH and unfolding and refolding his sectional about 13 times, the instructor just said, "Yeah, we're going to have to try this checkride again".
I think that getting comfortable flying with no navigational instruments, just a chart, clock, and airspeed indicator builds a lot better SA habits. This student had 1,000 differnet things that would've clued him in to how to get home. The bezel on that mfd was the outer boundary of his SA bubble.
I think the truth is that most experienced aviators do 'rely' on all the high tech stuff to get the job done, but when shit hits the fan and all the MFDs and instrumentation bites the dust, the experienced aviator can calmly and confidently fall back on his skillset of dead reckoning, pilotage, or just common sense to get on deck.
If you take one of these rich yuppies that has 60 hrs total time of relying on his $400,000 avionics package with wings to get him on deck after the the lights go out, he'd probably get lost over the airfield he's trying to land at.
Back in college I back seated a solo checkride that left out of New Smyrna Beach. It was one of the all glass Cessna 172s. We went out to the area, executed the stall series, etc, and the instructor turned off the big ole mfds and placed a card over the VOR and said great, now take me home. Now, New Smyrna Beach, is oddly enough, ON THE COAST of Florida. The area we were operating in was South along the coast. All the student had to due, was look at the ocean, figure out figure out which way North was, point his titties in that direction and we would've gone straight home. Hell, he even had a 50/50 shot of which way North was. Even easier, he could've relied on the wet compass that the instructor WASNT covering up.
After about 10 miles of heading SOUTH and unfolding and refolding his sectional about 13 times, the instructor just said, "Yeah, we're going to have to try this checkride again".
I think that getting comfortable flying with no navigational instruments, just a chart, clock, and airspeed indicator builds a lot better SA habits. This student had 1,000 differnet things that would've clued him in to how to get home. The bezel on that mfd was the outer boundary of his SA bubble.