CG CO relieved

[HeyJoe]

Shitty leadership is not the exclusive domain of SWOs.

Or the male gender. We've had national headlines over a female astronaut who crossed the line of acceptable behavior and now a female CO joining long line of males. Welcome to the club I suppose.

 

[Pugs]

My first FLEET squadron C.O. was mentally unstable ... he was an 'average stick' ... he was a 'combat' C.O. ... and (thanks to the people who worked for him) he got the job done. I would NEVER want to serve under him again ...

My first fleet CO took pride in pointing out that everyone else in his YG had died or gotten out. He was an awful ECMO and a worse CO and he was truly an evil person (one of only a couple people I' ve met in my life that I would describe that way). He didn't even have the benefit of being a combat CO, when we were going to deploy early for Desert Shield he told the wardroom that he would have the change of command early to avoid combat. CAG offered to give him a NAM as an end of tour award. Worse, was he beat the XO so badly on a daily basis about everything that when the XO fleeted up he simply wanted to fly and be left alone so one bad CO affected some peoples entire 3 year tour.

It took me until my second tour to have decent front office leaders to pay attention to and as it turned out they were both A-6 guys.

 

[navy09]

...when we were going to deploy early for Desert Shield he told the wardroom that he would have the change of command early to avoid combat.

Shitty leadership aside, it's shocking that a senior military officer would actually think that let alone announce it to the wardroom.

 

[SWO Bubba]

Why do people think that the shit leaders exist in the SWO world? This is for you SWO Bubba - it's because of the way the Navy runs things. A ship's CO is a god in his own mind, and supported by Navy tradition. He can make Navy orders more stringent, etc... There's WAY too much flexibility given to him. In the Marine Corps, orders from HQMC are orders from HQMC. The CO can't modify (mostly). That, and the USMC is willing to say "you suck." From what I understand, you're headed to be a CO of a ship. My advice to you (as an outsider looking in) is stop thinking about some young Ensign/JG's career, and start thinking about his sailors. Does he need to go? If so, let him go.

Until the leadership of both the Navy and the Marine Corps is willing to can shitbags early, things will continue the way they are. I'm amazed that a shitty leader was canned for being a shitty leader. Hopefully, this is the sign of things to come.

phrogpilot73,

I couldn't agree with you more with the exception that SWO COs are given too much flexibility - I'll explain why in a moment. Your comment about SWO COs sometimes getting the "God" complex is very true for mediocre and poor COs - some good ones too, unfortunately. The best time to see the COs true colors is when they depart being a CO and head to staff. The post-CO guys that walk onto staff thinking they are the s%#t get a rude awakening and a big slice of humble pie!!! The GREAT COs I've worked for understand their role as a temporary steward of the Navy's most precious assets - namely a crew of sailors and a warship. Because they are grounded to begin with, these GREAT COs command with a great sense of humility and transition to post-Command with little problem. You don't have to be a pompous ass and a tyrant to get the crew to work for you. I also completely agree with honest assessments of your Junior Officers. I've certainly seen many instances of reporting seniors taking the easy road kicking the problem to the next CO.

As for the "way too much flexibility" part - I don't see it as flexibility. Most of what is done aboard ship is pretty clearly defined in Navy regs, UCMJ and numerous other instructions. The CO of a ship does have some autonomy at times, especially when in the middle of the ocean independent steaming. Rank has its responsibilities and those that abuse the position should be held accountable.

 

[Short]

Shit leaders predate Tailhook, but I think that the long term fall out of 91 is still being felt. A lot of great guys who would be wearing stars right now aren't because of witch-hunt fall out, and a whole group of guys who would stay in won't b/c of the pc bullshit we get to deal with on a daily basis. That being said, while I've seen some COs veer towards crazy town near the end of their tours, I've never had a bad CO.

 

[fc2spyguy]

There is one man I would have jumped in front of a bullet for. He happened to be my first CO on the USS Cowpens. I could never really put my finger as to why he was such a fine leader, but everyone on that ship would have followed that man to hell and back. When it came to competition for the battle 'E', second place wasn't even close. Ship's seem to have their own personality, and that ship was a good one. I only hope that it hasn't changed drastically since I've left her. (Now 8 years ago, damn that seems like a long time . . .)

 

[HeyJoe]

The Navy Inquirer seemed to be insinuating that she would be moving on to the Pentagon as scheduled, as if nothing had happened. I have a feeling she was just executing orders she already had in hand... no one bounces back from an Admiral's Mast or being relieved for cause. [/URL].

I've heard she's not heading to the Pentagon as thought. Must have taken awhile for CoC to see the blog/forum whirlwind going super nova and people who served under her telling it like it was...even more interesting was comments that many tried to get the higher ups to act and that was suppressed. If press follows that story, there mght be more aftershocks.

As to her orders, I agree there isn't much of a prayer to coming back from Relief for Cause and especially after Mast as an O-6. Sometimes, they let someone hit a retirement gate, but if act was grevious, they point to the exit door and if she hasn't been wearing O-6 long enough, she might take a hit on pay/paygrade. Ironically, sending her to Pentagon as ordered would likely been a suitable "reward" as she would not be able to avoid the immediate recognition anytime she entered or left the building or roamed the hallways (and Gerbil tunnels). It would be a daily hammer blow to her ego. She'd hardly be effective in her job because she'd be tainted and simply serve as cannon fodder for ranking.

 

[SWO Bubba]

I've heard she's not heading to the Pentagon as thought.

I can confirm through a few sources her orders to the Pentagon were cancelled and she remains in Yokosuka. Following normal NJP procedures, I suspect she is in a limbo status until her Admiral's Mast case is fowarded to NPC and a show-cause determination is made.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

She'd hardly be effective in her job because she'd be tainted and simply serve as cannon fodder for ranking.

She could become the Pentagon's newest Excel wiz kid. I hear there's good job security on the outside if you know Excel.

 

[1110]

I seem to recall some similar stories on SWONET a few years back of CAPT Graf's leadership when she was XO of CDW...seems some things never change.

 

[statesman]

A more recent update to the CAPT Graf situation. Seems TIME drew a lot of its report from the IG report obtained under FOIA.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1969602,00.html?xid=huffpo-direct

Adding to the discussion re: progpilot73 and the MAJ Hasan discussion:

I have to wonder how many of these people get promoted or are brushed under the carpet because the leadership has "bigger fish to fry".

For instance, with MAJ Hasan he was working up for a deployment to Iraq as I understand, and I have to wonder if someone who saw a few of the 'warning signs' wasn't thinking "well I suppose if I had someone to replace him, or wasn't swamped with work I would do something about it, but for now its a back burner issue"... I can see how without knowing that he was going to shoot up a bunch of soldiers one might think, that the guy might be a shit bag but I just cant do anything about it now. Of course if they had known he was going to come to work with a gun they would do something about it, but because cases like that are the exception and not the rule they might get over looked.... I mean how many shit bags are out there in the Army, Navy, USAF, USMC, that leadership KNOWS are shitbags, but haven't shot up 12 people?

Don't get me wrong I am not excusing the behavior, OR these individuals being left in command / in the military, I am just thinking out loud about what kind of thinking may go into situations like this being overlooked...

Its a shame that it took so long for what appears to be terrible CO to be relieved, it's a shame that she was promoted in the first place if all of the accusations are in fact true, and it's a further shame that for every 1 CO that goes down there are probably a half dozen or more that are just as shitty but have their crews so scared shitless that they stay in command...

 

[feddoc]

Or the male gender. We've had national headlines over a female astronaut who crossed the line of acceptable behavior and now a female CO joining long line of males. Welcome to the club I suppose.

Or the medical field. Unneceszary deaths, inappropriate relationships with subordinates, drug abuse, drug theft, cover ups.....

 

[BigRed389]

Summarizations of the IG report on the case.

Purpose is to go into why she was taken to Mast rather than Court Martial.

http://admiraltymaritimelaw.blogspot.com/2010/03/navy-inspector-generals-report-on-holly.html

 

[Floppy_D]

Quote off of the first page of the above link:

A redacted crewmember of Graf's previous Command, the USS Winston S. Churchill , stated when interviewed, that , in approximately January of 2003, upon informing Graf that weather was outside the limits required to recover a helo onboard, she responded by saying, "I thought you flew fucking all-weather aircraft, now fuck me to tears."

I think if he did, it might have resolved some of her issues.

 

[scoolbubba]

The sad thing I just realized; while CAPT Graf commanded the USS Winston Churchill, her Nav was a Royal Navy exchange officer. Embarrassing in front of our older cousins, to say the least.

"[redacted] assigned to the Winston S. Churchill while an exchange officer from [redacted], stated when interviewed that immediately after an engineering casualty in February 2003 caused a "shudder" through the ship, Graf, on the bridge "got in my face and screamed, 'Fucking [redacted], you ran my fucking ship aground.'" The ship did not, in fact, run aground but was transiting shoal water."