China's Concrete Carrier

[Uncle Fester]

China's inidgenous carrier program is proceeding, including a full-scale concrete mockup of Varyag in Shanghai, negotiations to buy Flanker-N's, and studying how the Brazilians run the Sao Paulo.

On one hand, the Chinese clearly view having their own carrier as a very important national symbol and power-projection tool and they're serious about building their own.

On the other, as the last couple of paragraphs note, operating a carrier is really freaking hard. Most of the countries that have tried it, even small-deck helo/Harrier carriers, have found it's a hell of a lot harder and more expensive than it looks. We just make this shit look easy, I guess.

 

[a_m]

I've seen pictures. It's hilarious.

I'm curious to see the interaction between Chinese Aviators and Chinese SWO's.

 

[Flugelman]

You're just teasing me with this stuff...

"We are unable to verify that your computer is in the military network (.mil) domain. Please see the assistance page if your computer is actually in the .mil domain. "

Dang!

 

[OscarMyers]

http://www.murdoconline.net/chinese-aircraft-carrier-—-revealed

Another one of china's carriers.

 

[das]

You're just teasing me with this stuff...

"We are unable to verify that your computer is in the military network (.mil) domain. Please see the assistance page if your computer is actually in the .mil domain. "

Dang!

The Early Bird story is just this one from the South China Morning Post. Available here if you have Lexis/Nexis access.

This forum post has some pictures, and here it is on Google Earth!

NMIC just published a monograph on the modernization of the PLA Navy, and one of the highlights is that China is still expected to have an indigenous carrier by 2015 to 2020. Another observation is that while the US views carriers as an element of force projection, the Chinese view is that carriers will allow enhanced "offshore defense", extending into its "distant sea defense" strategy, enabling operations in areas like the Indian ocean.

 

[Calculon]

On the other, as the last couple of paragraphs note, operating a carrier is really freaking hard. Most of the countries that have tried it, even small-deck helo/Harrier carriers, have found it's a hell of a lot harder and more expensive than it looks. We just make this shit look easy, I guess.

The millions of man hours gained from all the various carriers we had during WW2 and on no doubt sets us far far apart from everyone else. Of course, after WW2, us and the British were the only nations that still operated any carriers, seeing as how everyone else's were at the bottom of the ocean :tongue2_1

 

[Old R.O.]

words.... Of course, after WW2, us and the British were the only nations that still operated any carriers, seeing as how everyone else's were at the bottom of the ocean :tongue2_1

Ahhhh..... Better check your history...

How about the fixed wing carriers operated by Canada (3 -- 1946 until 1970), France (fixed-wing carriers from 1927 to the present), Argentina (2 -- 1959 to 1999), Brazil (2 -- 1960 to present) and Australia (3 -- 1948 to 1982)?

Wiki Clicky

 

[mmx1]

Ahhhh..... Better check your history...

How about the fixed wing carriers operated by Canada (3 -- 1946 until 1970), France (fixed-wing carriers from 1927 to the present), Argentina (2 -- 1959 to 1999), Brazil (2 -- 1960 to present) and Australia (3 -- 1948 to 1982)?

Wiki Clicky

And of course, the Soviets/Russians.

 

[Mumbles]

Hope the Brits get back in the game with the HMS Queen Elizabeth.... I think they're doing a lot of soul searching about it now. Gordo and the Labour party certainly aren't big on the RN, but I don't think they'll last through the next election.

 

[d3west86]

Doesn't the Indian Navy have a carrier too?

 

[Calculon]

Ahhhh..... Better check your history...

How about the fixed wing carriers operated by Canada (3 -- 1946 until 1970), France (fixed-wing carriers from 1927 to the present), Argentina (2 -- 1959 to 1999), Brazil (2 -- 1960 to present) and Australia (3 -- 1948 to 1982)?

Wiki Clicky

True, I meant immediately post WW2forget that Canada and France had some carriers! Though it was meant to be that they were all lumped in on our side

 

[Mumbles]

Doesn't the Indian Navy have a carrier too?

a vstol jeep carrier.. and they've been running of SHARS..

here's what the nominal Indian Air Wing could look like on the Gorshkov/Vikramadityahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Vikramaditya if it ever is delivered:

and probably a few E-2s and Helix helos.....

 

[snake020]

and studying how the Brazilians run the Sao Paulo.

So basically they're trying to see how a second hand 1950s French carrier is operated... wouldn't they have done better to study their friends in Russia?

 

[OscarMyers]

So basically they're trying to see how a second hand 1950s French carrier is operated... wouldn't they have done better to study their friends in Russia?

Yeah and when i was in brazil in fall of 08 on the GW it didnt look like the Sao Paulo had operated for quite some time. The rumor was there pilots were so rusty the GWs ops wouldnt even let them fly the pattern.

 

[RedFive]

You're just teasing me with this stuff...

"We are unable to verify that your computer is in the military network (.mil) domain. Please see the assistance page if your computer is actually in the .mil domain. "

Dang!

If you're not on a gov't computer you can login with your social/name/birthday. I'm not sure if that's new or if I was just too dense last time I tried to get into earlybird from home.

Interesting story though.