CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz

[Swanee]

Let’s just cover all the cop outs in one post. It’s ok to recommend an overtly racist book by an extremist advocating extremism because:

Ive read other books I disagreed with.

No one reads the reading list books anyway.

It’s good to read extremist viewpoints and trying to understand them as long as they’re the viewpoints of the right extremists.

Anything else?

What's your hill to die on here? That people are asking the question of - "why is it that racial inequality endures and persists, even decades after laws have been passed that have made racism and racist policies illegal?'”

Seems like a good question to ask. Then we get some smart people who study it, and look to some answers.

Your experience growing up was a lot different than others, yet very much the same as the rest of the ready room. Why is that? The military officer corps is a lot more homogenous than we tend to let ourselves believe.

BTW- Matt Gaetz welcomes all publicity and loves the camera; I do believe he's hoping to be Trump 2.0.

 

[Griz882]

How is it overtly racist?

Because Kendi openly and clearly states that the only thing that matters is a person’s skin color. Personally, I liked his book and where it could have gone, but find his overall outlook disgusting.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

What's your hill to die on here? That people are asking the question of - "why is it that racial inequality endures and persists, even decades after laws have been passed that have made racism and racist policies illegal?'”

Seems like a good question to ask. Then we get some smart people who study it, and look to some answers.

Your experience growing up was a lot different than others, yet very much the same as the rest of the ready room. Why is that? The military officer corps is a lot more homogenous than we tend to let ourselves believe.

BTW- Matt Gaetz welcomes all publicity and loves the camera; I do believe he's hoping to be Trump 2.0.

I think hearing other viewpoints is good. I don’t think overtly racist marxist propaganda should be excused as “a different viewpoint”. Currently extremist books can be recommended but only from the correct extremists. It’s pretty simple.

 

[Python]

@Jim123 @SELRES_AMDO

In the interest of not having redundant threads, the topic of this book and these discussions in general have already happened and continue to happen in this post. Reading this should catch you up:

Space Force Officer Relieved After Denouncing CRT/Marxism

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/space-force-officer-relieved-from-post-after-criticism-critical-race-theory-marxism%3f_amp=true Was him espousing his views on the podcast “partisan”? Need a sea lawyer on this one.

www.airwarriors.com

 

[Mos]

I have reservations about the cultural change senior leaders have been pushing for over the past decade, and I thought Gaetz's question had merit and may very well have expressed the concerns of many servicemembers as he claimed... except, it's Matt Gaetz asking. Fuck that guy. If he really cared about the issue, he'd shut the fuck up and let someone with credibility ask the questions.

 

[Griz882]

What's your hill to die on here? That people are asking the question of - "why is it that racial inequality endures and persists, even decades after laws have been passed that have made racism and racist policies illegal?'”

This is, of course, the perfect question and I like it. Why? Because of human nature. Depending on where you stand on the arc of history you only want to see that which helps your narrative. A white supremacist might want history to stop at the height of the "Lost Cause" narrative when Jim Crow was law of the land (but never further forward to see the great strides we have made as a nation), while a BLM member feels the need to stretch U.S. history all the way back to 1619 (but never any further for fear we learn that slavery was then an African business). The past is the perfect weapon for all parties involved in this lunacy because can't be refuted and more importantly can't be fixed. The word "systemic" is actually being used as "historic" and because we can't go back to make repairs so solutions are forever impossible - in short - the "other" will always, always owe me because of what happened. It allows for a forever war of grievance and demand but rarely solutions.

The real question is, why don’t we as a nation say…That was then, this is now.

 

[scoolbubba]

Two things can be true at once.

1. CRT is a divisive and dangerous viewpoint anathema to that which has elevated American society, as a whole, above every other civilization which came before.
2. Also, there are historic injustices that put people lower on the socioeconomic ladder, who tend to be black and other non-white citizens, further and further behind the 8-ball.

It's not rocket surgery to figure out that my daughter, born in a happy and stable household that brings in plenty of money a year, has a head start on a child born to a single mother in urban housing projects. It's also not right to penalize my daughter for her luck of the draw. It doesn't raise anyone else up, it just brings some people down all the while telling the people who it's supposed to help 'you're helpless.'

CRT doesn't fix anything; it's mental masturbation at its most harmless and the worst kind of tribalism capable of ripping society apart at its worst. All it does is replace past discrimination with different discrimination...Discrimination based on something no one has any control over. It's 2021, we should be looking forward to real applicable solutions to problems that overwhelmingly affect people of color and those lower on the socioeconomic ladder.

 

[robav8r]

Two things can be true at once.

1. CRT is a divisive and dangerous viewpoint anathema to that which has elevated American society, as a whole, above every other civilization which came before.
2. Also, there are historic injustices that put people lower on the socioeconomic ladder, who tend to be black and other non-white citizens, further and further behind the 8-ball.

It's not rocket surgery to figure out that my daughter, born in a happy and stable household that brings in plenty of money a year, has a head start on a child born to a single mother in urban housing projects. It's also not right to penalize my daughter for her luck of the draw. It doesn't raise anyone else up, it just brings some people down all the while telling the people who it's supposed to help 'you're helpless.'

CRT doesn't fix anything; it's mental masturbation at its most harmless and the worst kind of tribalism capable of ripping society apart at its worst. All it does is replace past discrimination with different discrimination...Discrimination based on something no one has any control over. It's 2021, we should be looking forward to real applicable solutions to problems that overwhelmingly affect people of color and those lower on the socioeconomic ladder.

POTY - right here ?

 

[Brett327]

The word "systemic" is actually being used as "historic" and because we can't go back to make repairs so solutions are forever impossible

No, think the notion of the systemic effects endures to this day. We can't hand waive the lasting impacts that slavery and Jim Crow have had... and still have on our society and culture today. We don't have to go back to make repairs. The status quo is replete with unrighted wrongs. This isn't to say that we haven't made huge strides and lots of progress - we have - but I think some folks are unwilling to see that there's lots of work to be done. One need only read the threads on this site to understand that.

 

[Griz882]

No, think the notion of the systemic effects endures to this day. We can't hand waive the lasting impacts that slavery and Jim Crow have had... and still have on our society and culture today. We don't have to go back to make repairs. The status quo is replete with unrighted wrongs. This isn't to say that we haven't made huge strides and lots of progress - we have - but I think some folks are unwilling to see that there's lots of work to be done. One need only read the threads on this site to understand that.

There will always be work to be done, of that there is no doubt, but we will never start as long as we use the past as a cudgel to make demands.

 

[Python]

Two things can be true at once.

1. CRT is a divisive and dangerous viewpoint anathema to that which has elevated American society, as a whole, above every other civilization which came before.
2. Also, there are historic injustices that put people lower on the socioeconomic ladder, who tend to be black and other non-white citizens, further and further behind the 8-ball.

It's not rocket surgery to figure out that my daughter, born in a happy and stable household that brings in plenty of money a year, has a head start on a child born to a single mother in urban housing projects. It's also not right to penalize my daughter for her luck of the draw. It doesn't raise anyone else up, it just brings some people down all the while telling the people who it's supposed to help 'you're helpless.'

CRT doesn't fix anything; it's mental masturbation at its most harmless and the worst kind of tribalism capable of ripping society apart at its worst. All it does is replace past discrimination with different discrimination...Discrimination based on something no one has any control over. It's 2021, we should be looking forward to real applicable solutions to problems that overwhelmingly affect people of color and those lower on the socioeconomic ladder.

This. All of this.

 

[Python]

No, think the notion of the systemic effects endures to this day. We can't hand waive the lasting impacts that slavery and Jim Crow have had... and still have on our society and culture today. We don't have to go back to make repairs. The status quo is replete with unrighted wrongs. This isn't to say that we haven't made huge strides and lots of progress - we have - but I think some folks are unwilling to see that there's lots of work to be done. One need only read the threads on this site to understand that.

You’d have a hard time on this site finding any posts suggesting that historical justices haven’t happened, or any posts denying that there’s work to be done. Your suggestion to the contrary is the only real hand waiving going on here.

Two more things can be true at once:

1) The US has dark stains on its soul and there’s lasting impacts to minority communities that are a problem to this day.

2) CRT is not the solution to this problem. CRT, being defined in my post as the way the radicals have transformed it into the mainstream controversy it is today. That is, the racist and discriminatory and anti-American ideology that contemporary CRT is all about.

I’m willing to bet that all the critics of CRT on this site would say they agree that 1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive, and are both true.

Your dismissal of opposing viewpoints as “hysteria” in a previous post, without any response to the actual text you’re claiming is hysteric, is both frustrating and unsurprising.

 

[squorch2]

CRT, being defined in my post as the way the radicals have transformed it into the mainstream controversy it is today

well hell, as long as we're making shit up

 

[Python]

well hell, as long as we're making shit up

Nice try. I phrased it that way particularly so as to not repeat the same old stuff that’s been said in dozens of posts already. Consider it a shortcut in the interest of being concise. The broader meaning of “how CRT’s academic definition has been turned into something else in practice today” has been discussed as nauseum across several threads.

 

[Swanee]

It's not rocket surgery to figure out that my daughter, born in a happy and stable household that brings in plenty of money a year, has a head start on a child born to a single mother in urban housing projects. It's also not right to penalize my daughter for her luck of the draw. It doesn't raise anyone else up, it just brings some people down all the while telling the people who it's supposed to help 'you're helpless.'

I suppose the next question is why? Why do the policies that help the disadvantaged come down as hand-outs? Why do some many people want others to suffer because they had to suffer?

How do you promote the general welfare while still having policies that benefits the Haves at the expense of the Have-nots.

We want to ban abortion as Pro-Life, but conservative Pro-Lifers don't want to raise the (unwanted) kid once it's born.


The ruling class really fucked things up and set things into motion years ago that laws alone can't fix. But you can't go back in time and undo history. So how do we fix it? It's okay to say, "Oh well, sorry, that's just life" if you're on the side that benefitted from the consequences of those decisions and actions- but what if you're on the other side? Is that an acceptable answer? I think we're seeing that no it isn't. And the lines we're seeing depends upon was race you identify most with.

Of all of the people arguing here- is anyone not a white male?