CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz

[llnick2001]

not really that elementary. At its core- that what originalism is

Actually that's textualism. Some originalists are textualists, some are not.

*Edited to add, and also it doesn't matter to a textualist (or originalist) what was in the Constitution (or whatever they're interpreting because it isn't unique to constitutional questions) when the entire document was originally written; its about what it meant when it was said (or what the drafters of that part meant when they drafted it if your an original intent guy (gross)). So if an originalist is interpreting the 14th Amendment, James Madison and the like shouldn't enter the discussion, but John Bingham may.

 

[DanMa1156]

@nodropinufaka

Bro. Cut your losses. I was at least following your arguments up until about 3-4 pages ago, but since then, you have seemingly either purposefully or ignorantly mischaracterized originalism, suggested a Supreme Court Justice is a racist based on one ruling that could largely have been independent of the person's-in-question race, claimed you had to work 10x harder than, who exactly I don't know, but presumably your white peers, and refused to back that claim up with how systemic racism affected you personally other than saying you grew up poor and had a LT once tell you that affirmative action programs have an impact on the Navy's talent pool as I understand the conversation. I'll give you the systemic racism of the past that certainly affected your original lot in life, but as you yourself and others have suggested, you found a way to rise above it. There are other people who come from poor, or broken-up-families, or as immigrants who seem to make it as well. I was genuinely curious to see what you said in terms of how racism has personally forced you to work harder than the next guy, but your list of links did not scratch that itch in the slightest. If you're going to go back and forth with @HAL Pilot over stupid anecdotes of "well, I know a guy who is black and he did fine," and "well, I know a black guy who couldn't overcome racism," at least tell me how it's affected you. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying I want to hear it, but you lost me the second you listed a link about William Barr with nothing else, because I knew immediately then you didn't have anything on how any of his policies/interpretations/enforcement affected you personally.

Does racism exist? Absolutely. Everyone here has said as much, but either give us facts or stories, but not generic, biased-opinion-hit pieces of certain officials in government.

 

[DanMa1156]

That opinion was in reference to votes received by mail after Nov. 3rd, even without post mark. He suggested that we were lucky that Pennsylvania wasn't a catastrophe.

Thomas made the commonsense point: “Unclear rules threaten to undermine [the electoral system]. They sow confusion and ultimately dampen confidence in the integrity and fairness of elections.”

Thomas went on : "An election system lacks clear rules when, as here, different officials dispute who has authority to set or change those rules. This kind of dispute brews confusion because voters may not know which rules to follow. Even worse, with more than one system of rules in place, competing candidates might each declare victory under different sets of rules."

I don't disagree with you. But it was the same opinion you quoted, and he wrote twice that it would have had no impact on the outcome of federal elections in PA in 2020. The crux of his argument, which, because you made me interested, I just read the entire thing, was basically: "we should hear this case to settle how state courts and state legislatures can interact with each other over election laws for future elections and settle who really has the power, but it would have no impact on any federal election outcome from the state of PA in 2020." If you're going to quote it, at least be genuine about the rest of what he said. To everyone else's point: there continues to be no evidence of fraud or any reasonable way Donald Trump could have won the 2020 Presidential election.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Nobody said Barr’s policy affected me personally. I didn’t even say that.

I do love how worked up everyone’s getting cause they’re conservative to the core and can’t stand any ideas other then their own.

same thing happened in the climate change thread where @HAL Pilot and @Treetop Flyer denied climate change and science for 10+ pages.

Guess I will stop now.

what’s that saying?

a man convinced against his will or something

 

[Treetop Flyer]

@nodropinufaka

Bro. Cut your losses. I was at least following your arguments up until about 3-4 pages ago, but since then, you have seemingly either purposefully or ignorantly mischaracterized originalism, suggested a Supreme Court Justice is a racist based on one ruling that could largely have been independent of the person's-in-question race, claimed you had to work 10x harder than, who exactly I don't know, but presumably your white peers, and refused to back that claim up with how systemic racism affected you personally other than saying you grew up poor and had a LT once tell you that affirmative action programs have an impact on the Navy's talent pool as I understand the conversation. I'll give you the systemic racism of the past that certainly affected your original lot in life, but as you yourself and others have suggested, you found a way to rise above it. There are other people who come from poor, or broken-up-families, or as immigrants who seem to make it as well. I was genuinely curious to see what you said in terms of how racism has personally forced you to work harder than the next guy, but your list of links did not scratch that itch in the slightest. If you're going to go back and forth with @HAL Pilot over stupid anecdotes of "well, I know a guy who is black and he did fine," and "well, I know a black guy who couldn't overcome racism," at least tell me how it's affected you. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying I want to hear it, but you lost me the second you listed a link about William Barr with nothing else, because I knew immediately then you didn't have anything on how any of his policies/interpretations/enforcement affected you personally.

Does racism exist? Absolutely. Everyone here has said as much, but either give us facts or stories, but not generic, biased-opinion-hit pieces of certain officials in government.

I’m only quoting because a simple “like” isn’t enough and the person in question has proven impervious to logic.

 

[grodonfreeman]

To be fair, the Republican party started changing drastically socially in the late 80s with Pat Robertson gaining influence and then in the mid 90s with New Gingrich. Today's GOP is wildly different than that of the Nixon era. Let's not compare apples to oranges here, lest you want to also throw in Teddy Roosevelt, Hoover, and Eisenhower as being relevant to today's Republican party policies.

Quit moving the goal posts.
The actions of Republicans during the civil rights era is ENTIRELY relavent.
Since you cite the era, name one modern, racist law or EO enacted by Repubicans since the late 80's.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Nobody said Barr’s policy affected me personally. I didn’t even say that.

I do love how worked up everyone’s getting cause they’re conservative to the core and can’t stand any ideas other then their own.

same thing happened in the climate change thread where @HAL Pilot and @Treetop Flyer denied climate change and science for 10+ pages.

Guess I will stop now.

what’s that saying?

a man convinced against his will or something

You did about as well arguing for climate change as you did for racism.

 

[MGoBrew11]

Nobody said Barr’s policy affected me personally. I didn’t even say that.

I do love how worked up everyone’s getting cause they’re conservative to the core and can’t stand any ideas other then their own.

same thing happened in the climate change thread where @HAL Pilot and @Treetop Flyer denied climate change and science for 10+ pages.

Guess I will stop now.

what’s that saying?

a man convinced against his will or something

I’m the self declared conservative that pushed back, respectfully, against some of the stuff that @Spekkio and @HAL Pilot said while also acknowledging some agreement. But yeah, I guess I can’t stand any ideas other than my own....

You seem to see everything and everyone in this country through a racial lens, which is exactly what I think is problematic with CRT. I conceded pages ago that some form of systemic racism is still real. But not everything is always about race.

 

[llnick2001]

Quit moving the goal posts.....
Another poster claimed Repubes were racist. Another replied demanding that he name one modern racist legislative act that Repubes were responsible for. The original poster has not been able to.

So I ask you, name one racist law or EO enacted by Repubicans since the late 80's.

That shit is hillarious. Do one for Dems now!

 

[DanMa1156]

Nobody said Barr’s policy affected me personally. I didn’t even say that.

I do love how worked up everyone’s getting cause they’re conservative to the core and can’t stand any ideas other then their own.

same thing happened in the climate change thread where @HAL Pilot and @Treetop Flyer denied climate change and science for 10+ pages.

Guess I will stop now.

what’s that saying?

a man convinced against his will or something

But people were asking you to back up your claim of having to work 10x harder or how racism affected you and you basically responded with a list of "here are people I think are racist and here's an accompanying hit piece to prove my point."

You're also blaming conservatives for all your problems. You've lost me again, becasue now you're lumping me with with a political lot with whom I do not affiliate.

 

[DanMa1156]

Quit moving the goal posts. The action of Republicans during the civil rights era is ENTIRELY RELEVANT TODAY......
Another poster claimed Repubes were racist. Another replied demanding that he name one modern racist legislative act that Repubes were responsible for. The original poster has not been able to.

So I ask you, name one modern, racist law or EO enacted by Repubicans since the late 80's.

I think it's clear that, no matter how you slice it, the past 10 years of adjusting voter laws have been specifically to target minorities and reduce their likelihood in voting. The most egregious one was from the 2015ish (?) era with GA requiring that someone's name match exactly in all state systems, yet their DMV literally couldn't put hyphens in names, which is something very common among those of South American descent. All efforts to make voting day a national holiday I would say ultimately come down to voter suppression too, particularly of poorer communities, even if they were willing to trade for another holiday, like President's Day or Columbus day.

I would argue that we should make voting one of the easiest things someone can do; that way people feel like they are actually a part of the democracy, want to protect it, respect when other's lose, and have less civil unease - and unrest.

 

[nodropinufaka]

You're also blaming conservatives for all your problems. You've lost me again, becasue now you're lumping me with with a political lot with whom I do not affiliate.

feel free to point out where i said they are the source of all my problems.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I think it's clear that, no matter how you slice it, the past 10 years of adjusting voter laws have been specifically to target minorities and reduce their likelihood in voting. The most egregious one was from the 2015ish (?) era with GA requiring that someone's name match exactly in all state systems, yet their DMV literally couldn't put hyphens in names, which is something very common among those of South American descent. All efforts to make voting day a national holiday I would say ultimately come down to voter suppression too, particularly of poorer communities, even if they were willing to trade for another holiday, like President's Day or Columbus day.

I would argue that we should make voting one of the easiest things someone can do; that way people feel like they are actually a part of the democracy, want to protect it, respect when other's lose, and have less civil unease - and unrest.

Public Supports Both Early Voting And Requiring Photo ID to Vote | Monmouth University Polling Institute

One-third remain convinced of 2020 election fraud

www.monmouth.edu

Minorities overwhelmingly disagree that I.D. is racist. It’s common sense.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

feel free to point out where i said they are the source of all my problems.

You lumped a bunch of “white” people into an accusation you failed to prove and looked like a moron attempting to prove.

 

[DanMa1156]

Public Supports Both Early Voting And Requiring Photo ID to Vote | Monmouth University Polling Institute

One-third remain convinced of 2020 election fraud

www.monmouth.edu

Minorities overwhelmingly disagree that I.D. is racist. It’s common sense.

I didn't say voter ID, but come on, clearly, some of the measures are intended to reduce voter input from minorities. I don't know if it passed or not yet, but the TX measure to require all ballots need to be dropped off at a SINGLE location in a county for example, or the proposed ones that will exist will all be away from the minority voting areas? Some counties in TX are bigger than some of the states in the Northeast!