Clam Shelling

[HAL Pilot]

Did anyone see this new Abu Ghraib torture picture?

This isn't torture. We used to do this to our own Sailors on the TR when they came back to the landing drunk and disorderly. Only we use stokes litters. We called it "clam shelling". It was a great tool for the beach guard and it was a very effective way to store the Sailors until they sobered up enough to ride the liberty launch back to the ship without causing trouble. We'd clam shell them and even stack them 2 or 3 high if we started running out of room.

 

[fudog50]

Torture? If you and the American public think this is torture, then I got some nice beachfront property I'll sell ya in th everglades! Is this what all the current media fuss is all about? Give me a break. I have no idea the whole story behind this picture but he sure don't look to be physically hurt in any way. Sen. john McCain could tell you what real torture is, and that ain't it. I should show you some pictures of me during Chiefs Initiation in 94 where I was in a wooden coffin laying in 4 inches of dry ice and water with all kinds of seafood guts piled on top of me. The real Chiefs would close the lid and leave us there until we banged on the lid and screamed for mercy! Now that was torture!

 

[scotty008]

The first think I think of when viewing this photo is the 'Skeleton' event at the Winter Olympics. Rather appropriate, considering the timing...

 

[Banjo33]

#1 What is the point?
#2 Seems like there is a risk of suffocation, especially if "stacking" like you mentioned (I'm fairly certain you must be joking on that one).
#3 I'm getting claustrophobic just looking at him. Pretty sure I'd freak the fvck out if you wrapped me up like that!

 

[Schnugg]

I did on one occasion order a very unruly drunk sailor be cuffed and put in wire stokes. As much for his own safety as the Shore Patrol. He was a very obnoxious drunk and we had a corpsman check him periodically to make sure he wasn't dead. He was too unruly to be allowed on a liberty launch to the carrier (they were supply boats out of Jebel Ali) for his own safety, so we restrained him ashore so he could do no harm.

He mellowed out and about an hour or so later and asked to be let out so he could go back to the ship.

Actually has been done. We didn't stack anyone.

 

[KBayDog]

Apparently, a doctor "force-feeding" somebody on a hunger strike so they DON'T die is now torture. Uncle Saddam is on a hunger strike. Here's an idea: Don't "torture" him. Let him starve. (Maybe then that circus of a trial can be completed!)

We have absolutely no idea of the context of that picture, but I guess it doesn't matter. The public's mind is made up.

 

[HAL Pilot]

#1 What is the point?
#2 Seems like there is a risk of suffocation, especially if "stacking" like you mentioned (I'm fairly certain you must be joking on that one).
#3 I'm getting claustrophobic just looking at him. Pretty sure I'd freak the fvck out if you wrapped me up like that!

#1 The point is to keep the drunks under control for the safety of both the beach guard/shore patrol and the drunk himself.

#2 Normally we only had 1 or 2 clam shelled, but on at least one memorable night when I was the HMFIC of the beach guard, we had about 15 or so. We did stack them, because it was raining and we had them under a small shelter/tarp. Originally we had them 3 high but after a top guy puked, we changed it to 2 high & head-to-toe so no one else would get a face full. The stokes are wire with a rigid frame and there is plenty of open space for them to breath. Also since there were 2 stokes per drunk (in one with the 2nd inverted on top) the whole assembly was strong enough where someone getting crushed was not a problem. Further, there was always at least 2 of the beach guard with at least 1 a Corpsman watching over them. We never had any problems with stacking other than the puke issue.

#3 Yes, there was a lot of yelling from the drunks.

For a while, we even transported them back to the ship clam shelled. We stopped this after the USS Saratoga had a bunch of Sailors drown when a ferry being used as a liberty launch sank. We figured anyone clam shelled would go straight to the bottom.

I was in the Weapons Department on TR. The Gun Boss always volunteered Weps to run the beach guard because it gave us free hotel rooms and our duty periods were on shore instead of on the boat. He used not having to go back and forth to the boat as a reward for our AOs and GMs. We had more volunteers to stand beach guard than we could possibly use. AOs, especially AO LDOs and Chiefs have a sadistic sense of humor. They saw clam shelling as both effective and fun. They used it a lot.

 

[A4sForever]

#1 What is the point?
#2 Seems like there is a risk of suffocation, especially if "stacking" like you mentioned (I'm fairly certain you must be joking on that one).
#3 I'm getting claustrophobic just looking at him. Pretty sure I'd freak the fvck out if you wrapped me up like that!

Don't like this ??? Chump change. Wait 'til you get to SERE school -- or have you already been (?) ..... better keep your head about you.

 

[Whalebite]

I think the issue here is the fact that they were photographed in a non official manner, which is against the rules.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I think the issue here is the fact that they were photographed in a non official manner, which is against the rules.

But non-official photographs are not torture. They are claiming this was torture. The only thing I can see that can be construed as wrong in this Iraqi's clam shell is that he is face down instead of face up. That might be hard on the neck muscles.

 

[A4sForever]

I think the issue here is the fact that they were photographed in a non official manner, which is against the rules.

I fail to see where you are coming up with this spin on it --- they photographed us puking on the water board --- ostensibly for training. Do you think THAT was against the rules??? Was THAT torture ??? If so, then I guess my own government "tortured" me --- for sport and training(?).

We are supposedly at WAR, ladies. Hard as that is for some to fathom on occasion. It's time we collectively toughen up a little bit ....

 

[Whalebite]

Were you a prisoner?

 

[A4sForever]

Were you a prisoner?

No, I was a U.S. Naval Aviator. And with "n/a" in your bio --- the only question is: what are YOU? Besides "not applicable" ??? ...

Oh, by the way ... I have several friends who spent many years in the Hilton, just so you won't think I'm as ignorant, inexperienced, and clueless as you seem to be ...

 

[S.O.B.]

This isn't torture. We used to do this to our own Sailors on the TR when they came back to the landing drunk and disorderly. Only we use stokes litters. We called it "clam shelling". It was a great tool for the beach guard and it was a very effective way to store the Sailors until they sobered up enough to ride the liberty launch back to the ship without causing trouble. We'd clam shell them and even stack them 2 or 3 high if we started running out of room.[/QUOTE]


I want to party with the TR.

 

[zab1001]

complete threadjack...I am now on a mission to find a new use for the term "Clamshelling" a la "Dutch Oven"/"Dirty Sanchez"/"Stinkpalm"/"Blackbeard"

now back to "Is It Torture?"