Coast Guard discontinuing LORAN navid program

[Pugs]

Bet a lot of guys are real bummed about losing out on a LORAN assignment in the middle of Montana or Oklahoma.

But I also know a couple coasties who had a great time manning the site in Kodiak Alaska. Location is what you make of it.

I remember back in the day my Grandfather as one of the first using LORAN on a small boat to run offshore and he could drop us right on a pile of rocks to Grouper fish. Everyone else would spend an hour motoring around looking at the depth finder (which were on paper spools then). He was an Eastern pilot and a bunch of their fleet also had Omega.

 

[CAMike]

But I also know a couple coasties who had a great time manning the site in Kodiak Alaska. Location is what you make of it.

I remember back in the day my Grandfather as one of the first using LORAN on a small boat to run offshore and he could drop us right on a pile of rocks to Grouper fish. Everyone else would spend an hour motoring around looking at the depth finder (which were on paper spools then). He was an Eastern pilot and a bunch of their fleet also had Omega.

Now that's a system with potential (Omega). VLF Nav was just too far ahead of it's time, and too few transmitters of course.

 

[FlyingOnFumes]

I realize cost is always the issue, but too bad they don't have ground-based (approach accuracy) RNAV system as a backup to GPS... especially with those pesky Chinese touting the ability to knock out GPS with ASATs...

 

[Brett327]

I realize cost is always the issue, but too bad they don't have ground-based (approach accuracy) RNAV system as a backup to GPS... especially with those pesky Chinese touting the ability to knock out GPS with ASATs...

It's called a VORTAC. While it's not RNAV, per se, the ground based navaid system works just fine.

Brett

 

[phrogdriver]

I think that VORTACs will be gradually phased out until the military is the lone supporter.

Unless WAAS has the capability to completely supplant satellite GPS in an emergency, MIJI/destruction of GPS will be an issue in a conflict.

 

[jtmedli]

I think that VORTACs will be gradually phased out until the military is the lone supporter.

Let's hope not. I don't even like to see the NDBs getting decommissioned. If you really know how to use them those things can be a lifesaver in a plane with no GPS.

 

[slug]

I don't even like to see the NDBs getting decommissioned. If you really know how to use them those things can be a lifesaver in a plane with no GPS.

What plane doesn't have a GPS today? Anyone who can afford to fly a plane can afford a $200 Garmin. Even if they aren't FAA certified, one waypoint on the approach and another at the threshold is going to be more accurate than any NDB.

 

[BACONATOR]

What plane doesn't have a GPS today? Anyone who can afford to fly a plane can afford a $200 Garmin. Even if they aren't FAA certified, one waypoint on the approach and another at the threshold is going to be more accurate than any NDB.

I am only speculating, but I think many people kept an ADF in the aircraft because of Compass Locators and Marker beacons being NDBs used on ILS approaches. Now that many of those OM/MM/IM fixes are being replaced by GPS fixes, there's not much utility left in maintaining the NDB system. The satellites are already up there, so it's just a matter of bandwith/service life etc. But each NDB needs man hours for upkeep, and GPS is FAR more useful and accurate. It seems like a no-brainer.... at least to me. We all know how much that may be worth...

 

[MIDNJAC]

What plane doesn't have a GPS today? Anyone who can afford to fly a plane can afford a $200 Garmin. Even if they aren't FAA certified, one waypoint on the approach and another at the threshold is going to be more accurate than any NDB.

The Goshawk.....while it does have GPS and actually a pretty damn good nav system (in terms of reliability and accuracy), the display and user interface sucks. We have a database of a couple hundred waypoints (if that, can't recall the number), which does not include the vast majority of waypoints overall that you need for approaches. You can hand plug them in, but that is subject to operator error, and more importantly really needs to be done on deck. I don't know about fleet jets, but at least the T-45 is certainly an example

 

[scoolbubba]

P-3 has a GPS but for most aircraft it isn't certified for navigation purposes. We can't file /G.

 

[HuggyU2]

If you really know how to use them those things can be a lifesaver in a plane with no GPS.

That's one of the problems... just ask the T-43 crew that flew Sec of Commerce Ron Brown into Croatia.

T-38A has no GPS, but when we leave the local area we carry a Garmin 296/396 that the squadron bought.