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Coast Guard S-3 Vikings

But is the USCG going to start doing AR, much less start dropping bombs?

As cool as it would be to drop Rockeye on a drug-running cigarette boat, I don't think the capability is really needed.
 
FLYTPAY said:
Bombs and aerial refueling giving a loiter time of 6.5 hours+ is pretty darned good! ;) Taking an unbiased look at this is hard for me to do but the Hoov is definitely capable of handling the stress of the non0carrier environment for another 12,000 hours. It does not require R&D and the purchasing thing is not a factor since it is a government transfer of an asset to a different "department". Safety is also a factor....the S-3B is a single-engine capable airplane that can take a beating so it beats out the Falson in that respect. It is less of a "beast" than a Herc, and more maneuverable. The only thing that I would not want to see is the Hoov painted White and Orange. :D NASA is operating 2 that I know of as icing research testbeds also.
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I think that is the basic problem, the Hoover guys can't look at this unbiased. Other than getting a relatively 'free' aircraft, which they might have to pay for in the short and long term, how is the Hoover advantageous over other platforms for the USCG mission?

The USCG is already investing in the HC-144, which is smaller than the Herc and which I would be reasonably certain is single engine capable. The USCG does only light weapons, not Maverick's or Rockeye's. They don't air refuel. Other aircraft have better range and loiter time. They don't stress their airframes anywhere close to a carrier environment, obviating the need for an aircraft stressed for that. And where would they get the money mission specific equipment that the USCG would need to install on the Hoov?

Too many questions, not a lot of reasonable answers, other than the stars in the eyes of former Hoover guys.

HC-144A (maybe our resident Coasties can tell us more):

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3738/is_200702/ai_n18708911

http://www.uscg.mil/acquisition/mrs/default.asp
 
Two S-3's were down here in Homestead from Jax (VS-22 me thinks was the tailflash) a couple of months ago for the Coasties to fly in and check out. I was also told that the Forest Service is looking at acquiring a certain number also to be fire-bombers.
 
phrogdriver said:
But is the USCG going to start doing AR, much less start dropping bombs?

As cool as it would be to drop Rockeye on a drug-running cigarette boat, I don't think the capability is really needed.
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THe S-3 brings survivability, safety, weapons if you need 'em, a ridiculous loiter time, and a great sensor package. I am not sure what the coastie requirements, and I am sure they are doing a cost-benefit analysis. I will call my buddy who is still at the Weps School to get the scoop to pass along.
 
i don't think anyone is disputing that the Hoov is a great plane with lots of life left in it. But seems like it doesn't bring anything to the fight (that the CG needs) that their existing fixed-wing fleet, especially if they've already got those HC-144s in the pipeline.
 
THe S-3 brings survivability, safety, weapons if you need 'em, a ridiculous loiter time, and a great sensor package. I am not sure what the coastie requirements, and I am sure they are doing a cost-benefit analysis. I will call my buddy who is still at the Weps School to get the scoop to pass along.
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Dude, you have had to much of the Kool-Aid.. It was a good jet for it's mission back in the day but there is new and better stuff out there... What is the threat? A cigarette boat, cessna, ??? I think a more sensor loaded C-130 would be just fine.. Follow this argument for one second.. A tactical fighter (F something or another) into a hot area.. What you want.. Once that threat is low enough.. An AC-130.. One bad ass airplane for the mission (loiter, weapons, sensors, operators).. I think the arugument for the S-3 is what does it bring (that is needed) to the Coast Guard..
 
Is the Falcon not a single engine capable bird??
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You bet. If it loses an engine it can easily climb up and it has a great single-engine radius. In fact, it does better losing an engine than the C-144 in this respect. That is, if you are doing a mission way out 1200 mile away from land and you lose an engine on the C-144, you might have to dump quite a bit of fuel to continue flying if you are hot & heavy, and then you may not be able to limp all the way to shore.

Not only that, it makes little sense to me to get the Hoover when there are a variety of platforms out there that could easily be used for the same mission, like the HC-144 and HU-25. Many countries use executive jets/medium civil aircraft for CG and MARPAT duties. It makes little sense to me to use an older platform that would be cost intensive in the long run. The CG doesn't hunt subs and doesn't perform maritime strike, like other interested parties that have looked at the S-3, and they don't land on the carrier. So why does the CG really need the mighty War Hoover? To me, it just smacks of wishful thinking on the part of S-3 guys.......
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It is my understanding that this would be just a stop gap measure as the C-144 comes (slowly) on line through missionization/testing. The reasons that the C-144 was chosen was it was cheap (it was during the initial bids, at least), and we are looking at contract maintenance. It is much cheaper to operate a prop than a jet and the loiter time is good (better than the Falcon's which is around 3.5 hours...less than an HH-60!), but it is still taking a while for it to move through.

I don't have all of the facts, but I can see someone at HQ saying "Admiral, we can lease these available aircraft with great radar/loiter/established record and we can have them on line in just xx months vice the X years we are looking at with the Casa. And look, here are hard numbers on the operating costs".

I would love to hear all of the reasoning on this one.
 
Nothing official...just rumor mill. Of course, "contract maintenance" is a rumor that spreads like wildfire as it is near & dear to so many.
 
HercDriver said:
It is much cheaper to operate a prop than a jet and the loiter time is good (better than the Falcon's which is around 3.5 hours...less than an HH-60!), but it is still taking a while for it to move through.
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The Hoov burns about 2400pph. THe last time I saw an operating cost for the Hoov I believe it was about $3800 per hour.
 
Gkp200 said:
No contract maintenance. The HC-144A will be supported like every other CG asset.
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Like the Augusta birds?

I remember reading that contract maintenance was part of the original proposal for Deepwater...part of the naysayers saying that it would be more cost effective. And I know it has been revisited many times, though I didn't know an official determination was made. I know the hangar deck will be happy, but too bad that we didn't get the C-27Js and have a common engine between two airframes.

That is good news, as I like having fixers be flyers.
 
HercDriver said:
Like the Augusta birds?

I remember reading that contract maintenance was part of the original proposal for Deepwater...part of the naysayers saying that it would be more cost effective. And I know it has been revisited many times, though I didn't know an official determination was made. I know the hangar deck will be happy, but too bad that we didn't get the C-27Js and have a common engine between two airframes.

That is good news, as I like having fixers be flyers.
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I would not be surprised if contract maintenance was in the Deepwater proposal because the program was being run by.........contractors.
 
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