COD Gear Up Landing

[phrogdriver]

Cut him some slack. Your first priority is to egress, then conduct a head count and determine whether it's safe to go back if necessary. Also, generally (I don't know about C-2 in particular), there's an aircrewman in back who has the responsibility of ensuring the orderly egress of passengers.

I will say, having done a couple of emergency egresses, that unless you're in water, you have plenty of time. It's unlikely to blow Hollywood-style, and you're more likely to make it out in one piece if you get out in a methodical fashion.

 

[bunk22]

Did you notice that one pilot hauling ass away from the plane to save himself, then sheepishly walking back to make sure the pax all got out when the other pilot stayed behind- good stuff

I know him, not that well but he came from VRC-30 so many of the JO's knew him well. So they busted his balls quite a bit for that

 

[Harrier Dude]

Already knew it wouldn't be a problem landing gear up in a COD. A former CO of VRC-40 (prior to being CO) landed one gear up inadvertently in the early 90's. Plane was still flying with VAW-120 as of a few years ago. It had the CO's first name painted on the end of the ramp, Paula.

A buddy of mine was the NADEP guy that had to ferry this thing out to the east coast. It took several years to rebuild, and he said that the only reason they did it was to save this up-and-coming CO-to be a class A mishap on her record.

He said that it set some kind of record for the most emergencies on an FCF trying to get it up. Eventually, they started filing flight plans to Norfolk on each FCF so that if it ever made it through the card they could just press east and get it delivered. Three weeks and several emergencies later (after it passed the card) they eventually made it.

 

[bunk22]

A buddy of mine was the NADEP guy that had to ferry this thing out to the east coast. It took several years to rebuild, and he said that the only reason they did it was to save this up-and-coming CO-to be a class A mishap on her record.

This happened a few years prior to her O-5/command select board or so I thought. Unless the mishap effects your FITREP, not sure how the O-5/Command Select Board would know, unless someone knew and brought it up.

 

[Harrier Dude]

This happened a few years prior to her O-5/command select board or so I thought. Unless the mishap effects your FITREP, not sure how the O-5/Command Select Board would know, unless someone knew and brought it up.

She wasn't selected yet, I don't think. Just a "future CO" in the eyes of The Man. Somebody wanted her to get command someday.

At least in the Marine Corps, there's a mandatory comment on fitreps regarding mishaps. That couldn't be helpful to getting command.

Evidently they did the "post gear up landing boldface".....Gear Handle-DOWN, Story-GET STRAIGHT WITH CO-PILOT, Mouth-SHUT and it seemed that there was a better than average chance that this whole mishap would be swept under the rug. Evidently, it did.

 

[bunk22]

No mishap section for Navy FITREPS.......many variables there.

 

[bert]

This happened a few years prior to her O-5/command select board or so I thought. Unless the mishap effects your FITREP, not sure how the O-5/Command Select Board would know, unless someone knew and brought it up.

That is correct - there would have to have been a JAG finding (creating a Fiche 5/field code 17) or a statement in the comments block of her FITREP (which she could have made a statement to counter) to make it in front of the board. Without that, the board members would be forbidden from even mentioning it without paperwork to back it up.

 

[phrogdriver]

At least in the Marine Corps, there's a mandatory comment on fitreps regarding mishaps. That couldn't be helpful to getting command.
.

A word search in PES showed nothing to that effect. My personal experience says no on that, too. It wouldn't make sense to ding someone in a fitrep who wasn't found culpable for a mishap.

If you get dinged by an FFPB, however, and either lose your flight status or are put on probationary flight status (damn you Dean Wormer!), you do get a DC fitrep. Conditional flight status is supposed to get mentioned on the next scheduled report, but the wording isn't very strong on that one.

Mandatory comment:
(5) A Field Flight Performance Board finds the MRO negligent,
culpable, or terminates and/or restricts flight status of the MRO (see
paragraph 3004.2c(9) to determine if a DC report is warranted.

DC fitreps:
(9) When a respondent to a Field Flight Performance Board (FFPB) is
subject to revocation of orders to duty in a flight status, revocation of right
to wear aviation insignia, or placed in a probationary flight status (as
addressed in reference (h) (ACTS Manual). NOTE: Assignment to conditional
flight status, as a result of a FFPB, is reported when the next fitness report
occasion comes due.

 

[Harrier Dude]

A word search in PES showed nothing to that effect. My personal experience says no on that, too. It wouldn't make sense to ding someone in a fitrep who wasn't found culpable for a mishap.

If you get dinged by an FFPB, however, and either lose your flight status or are put on probationary flight status (damn you Dean Wormer!), you do get a DC fitrep. Conditional flight status is supposed to get mentioned on the next scheduled report, but the wording isn't very strong on that one.

Mandatory comment:
(5) A Field Flight Performance Board finds the MRO negligent,
culpable, or terminates and/or restricts flight status of the MRO (see
paragraph 3004.2c(9) to determine if a DC report is warranted.

DC fitreps:
(9) When a respondent to a Field Flight Performance Board (FFPB) is
subject to revocation of orders to duty in a flight status, revocation of right
to wear aviation insignia, or placed in a probationary flight status (as
addressed in reference (h) (ACTS Manual). NOTE: Assignment to conditional
flight status, as a result of a FFPB, is reported when the next fitness report
occasion comes due.

That's what I was talking about. Sorry, I guess that wasn't clear in my post. There is no "mishap section" on a fitrep, but I meant the part about it being mentioned on the report if it was your fault.

If the mishap in question was the result of "an inadvertant gear up landing", then that would seem to indictate some sort of bad ju-ju from the FFPB. Since the MP is in the navy, vice Marines, I don't know if navy fitreps have a similar rule.

Either way, it worked out for the MP in this case, fair/good or not.

 

[Nose]

That is correct - there would have to have been a JAG finding (creating a Fiche 13 or whatever they are called these days) or a statement in the comments block of her FITREP (which she could have made a statement to counter) to make it in front of the board. Without that, the board members would be forbidden from even mentioning it without paperwork to back it up.

I think you have confused a promotion board with a command screen board. Promotion boards are statutory (covered by law) and there are very strict rules about what can be said. A command screen board is administrative and anything is fair game.

When this occurred, (95 IIRC) she was a RAG IP but had already screened for command. She was in the right seat and the RP in the left seat was a minority. I would have poked my eye out to avoid being involved with the JAG/Mishap board.

The Navy had the opportunity to take away her command screen (most people don't know it, but people who have already screened have to be "re-screened" administratively at the next command screen board if they are not yet in command.

She is a nice lady, and the people I know that worked for her at VRC-40 said she was a hell of a CO. She went on to be a Commodore in the Training Command. She was married to an E-2 pilot, great guy, former CO. He passed away last year.

I was in ops the day of the mishap. The tower chief from Elizabeth City called and I answered the phone. I thought it was someone in the squadron dicking with me (we did that constantly). Took him about 3 minutes to convince me it was the real deal. When I realized it was, I passed him off to the SDO and several of us "disappeared" for the rest of the day to avoid being sucked into the vortex.

 

[bert]

Not confused; he asked aboutO-5/Command Screen. I don't know anything about the person or the incident, just talking about the rules.

http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/210C6E85-A52A-4E97-97A2-6A7CE5B0E78D/0/acsb_fy07_precept.pdf

Link above goes to ACSB precept - you can see the guidance on adverse info on page A-3.

http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/E9B8EFAB-B598-460D-9B95-ECF96DFAA488/0/FY08USNCDRPRECEPT.pdf

For comparison, this is last years O-5 line precept, section on adverse info starts on A-4 and it is essentially the same.

 

[HooverPilot]

We have that bird @ VRC-40 now. I flew the acceptance "A" profile on it. It was only the 2nd flight since it landed gear up. Flew like a dream. The rebuild crew got it right. Of course, I was supposed to be a pax on that bird when it landed gear up, but got switched to the other one during the brief.