College Degree and School

[exNavyOffRec]

What's a PFAR 7 OAR? Is he switching to Navy or going back to AF?
Also, do they look at just the general list, not even the top engineering schools in the country? Would they regard a top liberal arts school over an engineering school just cause of the overall rankings?

Thanks for the replies. I was going by the US news rankings and just word of mouth from other Navy folks.

PFAR is pilot flight apptitude rating
OAR is officer apptitude rating

This person was trying to go Navy after dropping AFROTC

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I merely a History major from 'liberal arts' school so I can't speak too much on some of the specifics but can give you some general advice. The Navy doesn't care too much where you graduated from as long as it is an accredited school and you did well in your field of study and while the Navy prefers 'technical/science' degrees I have flown with guys who studied Art History, Physical Education and even a double major in Women's Studies and French Literature from Berkeley (a dude in fact), at least one member of the board here flew with only a GED. Some of the best officers I have met got their degree studying part-time from Random State U and some of the worst came from MIT or the Naval Academy and vice versa. So to be frank, the Navy and your fellow officers ain't going care where you graduated as long as you did well and continue to do so in your squadron.

You do need a technical degree to attend test pilot school but that is just one part of it, you usually have to be a solid performer in you first squadron that you can to be selected as well. A TPS board will look at where you graduated but as long as you demonstrated that you can learn, got decent grades, from an accredited program your school of study really isn't going to matter that much. I have known several guys to go to TPS and many did not graduate from a 'well known' engineering school, they got their degrees and did well enough in their squadrons to be selected for TPS.

One thing to note, I have also known several guys who were excellent candidates but did not get selected for TPS due to luck and timing which play a big part of anyone's military career. In my first squadron the stronger candidate of two was not selected because of a peculiarity of the slot for our community that year.

One more thing, I don't know a whole lot about ERAU but I would take some of their propoganda with a note of caution. While I understand it is a decent school/s it also has a rep for overselling itself a bit, talking up it's reputation more than it really is, and costing a bit more than it should. Grads from ERAU also have a bit of a rep in the Navy for sometimes thinking more of themselves and their aviation knowledges than they should. My own view of the school was colored by my only flight school classmate who went to ERAU and was extremely arrogant and looked out only for himself at the cost of others, and repeatedly let everyone know that he was a better aviator becasue he graduated from Riddle. I know all Riddle kids aren't all arrogant assholes but when the most outspoken ERAU guy on this forum is Joboy/OttoWrote8 then you might get my drift as to why some people's views of the place are a bit wary .

One of my applicants had a degree in video production or something similar, took the ASTB one time and smoked it 9's and an OAR in the 70's! A tech degree is good but it isn't everything.

 

[revan1013]

I've seen people with music, art history, dietician, and other degrees get picked up for OCS and do just fine in flight school.

Underwater basket weaving is a big hit right now I hear.

 

[bert]

For the OP, what is such a bad fit about the AF (or such a good fit about the Navy) that makes you think taking on student loans would be better than having the AF pay your way?

No offense, but considering you've only done 1 semester of AF ROTC, I'd wager you know less than nothing about the actual AF.

 

[mid1510]

I wasn't implying that. I said "Be careful". I'm certainly not going to give financial advice to someone I don't know, but I'll agree that a student loan is a great resource/tool for aspiring officers (I think everyone would agree with that). But again, "Be careful". Sometimes its hard to recognize, young men and women like myself, the long term obligations of a student loan, especailly if you have/are going to have other financial obligations. For some, its worth it. For others, it may require a couple of years of working somewhere before going back to school. Don't make paying off a student loan sound so easy. For some, it ain't.

It's definitely not going to be easy, that's why I said it sucks to have a loan. But it seems like that is the only way for him to achieve his goals.

 

[Deere1450]

It's definitely not going to be easy, that's why I said it sucks to have a loan. But it seems like that is the only way for him to achieve his goals.

Two ways to skin a cat. A good look into ALL the OP's options and a thorough cost/benefit analysis would be wise. A college loan is just one way yadadada (I think I've made my point). Sorry if I came off as a douche, mid1510.

Another thought for the OP: I grew up in AZ and currently attend UofA. Is the AIMS scholarship still available for you? If you exceeded the standards on the Arizona standardized tests, tuition was paid for all 4 years to UofA, ASWho, or NAU (provided you kept your grades up while attending). That was my reasoning for coming to the UofA. I had something to fall back on if NROTC didn't work out. The only degree that I was interested in was a free one.

 

[Flash]

.....The payoff has been AFTER I got out. The jobs I saw that were open to the average liberal arts degree with 10 years and a TS/SCI pay about half what I am making. $120k+ vs $65-75k goes a long way towards funding my retirement.

You were looking in the wrong place then. I did have the advantage of good looks and charm though.......

 

[dag27]

You do need a technical degree to attend test pilot school but that is just one part of it, you usually have to be a solid performer in you first squadron that you can to be selected as well. A TPS board will look at where you graduated but as long as you demonstrated that you can learn, got decent grades, from an accredited program your school of study really isn't going to matter that much. I have known several guys to go to TPS and many did not graduate from a 'well known' engineering school, they got their degrees and did well enough in their squadrons to be selected for TPS.

...
One more thing, I don't know a whole lot about ERAU but I would take some of their propoganda with a note of caution. While I understand it is a decent school/s it also has a rep for overselling itself a bit, talking up it's reputation more than it really is, and costing a bit more than it should. Grads from ERAU also have a bit of a rep in the Navy for sometimes thinking more of themselves and their aviation knowledges than they should. My own view of the school was colored by my only flight school classmate who went to ERAU and was extremely arrogant and looked out only for himself at the cost of others, and repeatedly let everyone know that he was a better aviator becasue he graduated from Riddle. I know all Riddle kids aren't all arrogant assholes but when the most outspoken ERAU guy on this forum is Joboy/OttoWrote8 then you might get my drift as to why some people's views of the place are a bit wary .

I see where you're coming from. A lot of the kids here have an "I'm better than you" mentality and its pretty annoying considering they haven't even graduated the place yet. I came here for the engineering program, not to be a stuck up douche as an officer. I've heard plenty of other stories of the self-centered guys even ones with commercial/instrument ratings flopping in training.

Do most of the guys that get selected for TPS only do one squadron tour beforehand? Or do they build up some experience and do some non-flying duties before going?

 

[dag27]

I'm still paying off my student loans, and I've been out of school for over 10 years.
I know Ensign pay is a little higher than it used to be, but i was paying half my take home pay to Sallie Mae when I was in flight school.

The payoff has been AFTER I got out.

The jobs I saw that were open to the average liberal arts degree with 10 years and a TS/SCI pay about half what I am making.

$120k+ vs $65-75k goes a long way towards funding my retirement.

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk

Exactly. If I medical out or something, I was hoping to fall back on being an engineer. Anything to stay out of the cubicle!

 

[dag27]

For the OP, what is such a bad fit about the AF (or such a good fit about the Navy) that makes you think taking on student loans would be better than having the AF pay your way?

No offense, but considering you've only done 1 semester of AF ROTC, I'd wager you know less than nothing about the actual AF.

I understand. I just like how the navy/mc operates better from what I've seen. I like the whole mentality of being an officer and a leader first and whatever your job is second. I'll make sure to do some more research before committing to anything or dropping the scholarship but as of right not I'd like to keep my options open.

 

[dag27]

Two ways to skin a cat. A good look into ALL the OP's options and a thorough cost/benefit analysis would be wise. A college loan is just one way yadadada (I think I've made my point). Sorry if I came off as a douche, mid1510.

Another thought for the OP: I grew up in AZ and currently attend UofA. Is the AIMS scholarship still available for you? If you exceeded the standards on the Arizona standardized tests, tuition was paid for all 4 years to UofA, ASWho, or NAU (provided you kept your grades up while attending). That was my reasoning for coming to the UofA. I had something to fall back on if NROTC didn't work out. The only degree that I was interested in was a free one.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll definitely look into that.

If the NROTC scholarship doesn't work out, I'm hoping to do the PLC and go to OCS this summer. That way I can take out the TAP and FAP to pay for some of the tuition. I'd like to minimize the amount I have to take out as a loan.

 

[Deere1450]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll definitely look into that.

If the NROTC scholarship doesn't work out, I'm hoping to do the PLC and go to OCS this summer. That way I can take out the TAP and FAP to pay for some of the tuition. I'd like to minimize the amount I have to take out as a loan.

Sweet, mang. Best of luck. Enjoy Prescott while you're up there! Good country up yander

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I would go talk to a USMC OR and USN OR and get basic information, I talk to the USMC OR every few months and I thought the last time we talked he told me the program where you go to OCS during the summers was just closed and he could only work those that graduate this year.

If you came into my office I would tell you what the requirements are for the aviation program and also tell you that if you decide to drop there are no guarantees and that I could not in good conscience recommend you drop your scholarship, and if you decide to be aware you might not be able to get back in to any service.

 

[Flash]

I see where you're coming from. A lot of the kids here have an "I'm better than you" mentality and its pretty annoying considering they haven't even graduated the place yet. I came here for the engineering program, not to be a stuck up douche as an officer. I've heard plenty of other stories of the self-centered guys even ones with commercial/instrument ratings flopping in training.

Just don't be 'that' guy!

Do most of the guys that get selected for TPS only do one squadron tour beforehand? Or do they build up some experience and do some non-flying duties before going?

Most of the guys I knew went to TPS were selected at the end of their initial squadron tour (that is where the timing/luck came in) and a few during their first shore tour. I think they want guys who have recent and relevant fleet experience to keep the testing 'grounded' and 'current', guys coming from their first squadron tour have the most current knowledges and experience in the fleet without the 'old habits' some more senior guys have along with more current schooling (college) and the relevant study habits as well.

Some TPS grads go back to the fleet and continue with a regular career after some time in the test world, some by choice and some not, while others become Aviation Engineering Duty Officers (AEDOs) and make testing and/or program management their careers. I understand the COs of the VX squadrons are usually (always now?) AEDOs. That is my basic understanding of the TPS world, anything more some TPS/testing guys will have to chime in, I know there are a few members here that have experience in both.

 

[MIDNJAC]

There were douchebags in NROTC as well my man. In general, ROTC is a pretty poor representation of whatever service branch you are speaking of.......it is like a magnet for socially retarded morons who play dungeons and dragons, and have star trek like visions of "leadership". There are also some good dudes, and they are the ones who typically rise to the top, or at least just suck it up, shut their faces, and get through the program. Point being that I wouldn't make my decision on sticking with the AF based on your cadets, 80% of them are probably going to be lackluster staff DB's in a few years anyway. If you stick with it, you will see what I mean in a few years. And even then, there will be some DB's.......they are everywhere, and choosing a different branch of service will only subject you to other DB's, not less.