Columbia NROTC fight

[mmx1]

They don't, they have cross town affiliates is what I gathered from that segment.

Exactly, and the closest Navy program at SUNY Maritime is outside the mile radius for eligibility, so you aren't eligible to participate in NROTC if you attend Columbia.

Hence the argument that if there is a program to return to Columbia, NROTC would be the most feasible and step on the least toes as far as competing with neighboring programs.

 

[pourts]

NROTC would enable more poor kids to go to Columbia.

Negative. Columbia, like most (and possibly all) of the Ivies meets 100% of financial need.

 

[pourts]

Exactly, and the closest Navy program at SUNY Maritime is outside the mile radius for eligibility, so you aren't eligible to participate in NROTC if you attend Columbia.

What's the required radius? Cal and UC Davis are 40 miles apart.

 

[KCOTT]

I like how campuses (such as mine and assuming Columbia as well) let hippies convene and protest the war, America, and even Wal-Mart. But Columbia and similar campuses won't allow ROTC. Go figure.

 

[OccamsRazor]

I'm a current Columbia student, and will (hopefully) soon be Final Select for BDCP. I'm politically liberal, like many of the people working on returning NROTC to Columbia, and the perception of Columbia as monolithically crazy-left-wing, while true to a certain degree in the faculty, is much less true of the student body. I honestly don't understand the DADT-based opposition to NROTC; it's not as though the military made that policy (Congress did) and boycotting the military does nothing to change it. There are few enough militarily inclined students here (though quite a few in GS, which is an undergraduate college originally set up for GI Bill students returning from WW2) but I think Obama and the new Congress are likely to repeal DADT in any case, which will strip the facade away from the groups that hide their anti-military sentiment behind Don't Ask Don't Tell.

I think the fact that the opposition is basing its entire platform on that one issue will make it very likely that they'll crumble if DADT is repealed. So when ea6bflyr says "never gonna happen," I think, with due respect, that he might be wrong - I know several PLC students here, and several others who have expressed potential interest in service. Columbia is stupid to ban ROTC, but the Navy would be foolish not to put a program in place if allowed - there's a real untapped potential to put well-educated, if left-leaning, individuals into uniform.

 

[ea6bflyr]

So when ea6bflyr says "never gonna happen," I think, with due respect, that he might be wrong - I know several PLC students here, and several others who have expressed potential interest in service. Columbia is stupid to ban ROTC, but the Navy would be foolish not to put a program in place if allowed - there's a real untapped potential to put well-educated, if left-leaning, individuals into uniform.

So what was the excuse de jour pre-DADT? I'd almost bet my check that it'll never happen. Any side wager takers?

-ea6bflyr

 

[mmx1]

So what was the excuse de jour pre-DADT? I'd almost bet my check that it'll never happen. Any side wager takers?

-ea6bflyr

The ban on homosexuality, perhaps? DADT gives them a veneer of "we can't help it, it's what the anti-discrimination rules dictate." That aside being anti-military is no longer en vogue, even among Dems.

Never happen in what timeframe (for betting purposes)? Four years, I doubt so, simply between getting DADT overturned, the University senate to decide to readmit ROTC, and the Navy to get a program underway, I'd wager at least 6, and likely 8-10 years.

In 15 years time? I'd bet on it. Forever is a long time

 

[OccamsRazor]

I honestly have no idea what the excuse before DADT was, but the issue probably didn't come up much between '69 and '93.

Columbia used to have a very large detachment of ROTC students, and I think in time, it will again. As mmx1, open anti-military stances are quasi-extinct outside the far, far left-wing SDS/socialist/hippie loon faction. The people opposing NROTC on the basis of supposed sexism/racism/classism in the military have essentially no facts, but it doesn't stop them screaming about exploitation of women/minorities/poor people etc - but nobody, including the College Democrats, takes them seriously.

It will take some time, but I could totally see the military under Obama making a symbolic push for returning NROTC to Columbia, his alma mater.

 

[ea6bflyr]

The ban on homosexuality, perhaps? DADT gives them a veneer of "we can't help it, it's what the anti-discrimination rules dictate." That aside being anti-military is no longer en vogue, even among Dems.

Never happen in what timeframe (for betting purposes)? Four years, I doubt so, simply between getting DADT overturned, the University senate to decide to readmit ROTC, and the Navy to get a program underway, I'd wager at least 6, and likely 8-10 years.

In 15 years time? I'd be willing to bet on it.

Let's see, in 1969, the NROTC was kicked off campus due to anti-Vietnam protests. How are our Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq any different cannon fodder for Ivy-League thinkers? Sure, if the DADT policy is overturned, then they might consider it, but I'm certain they will spin another reason to keep NROTC off campus.

Occam,
The student body does not make policy. But, the student body does have an influence on the policy makers.

My point is that there will ALWAYS be an excuse to not let the NROTC back on campus.

The Navy moves pretty fast. Look at EARU. The Navy jumped with both feet and had an established NROTC within a year.

I'll quantify my previous statement:
<15 years: Never gonna happen.
>15<25 years: Maybe, but doubtful.
>50: Sure, and "monkeys might fly out my butt"

-ea6bflyr

 

[mmx1]

You'd be surprised. Academics, the moonbats aside, aren't particularly anti-war, any more than your average American. If anything the war on terror makes the argument more compelling, as Ivy veterans like Andrew Exum and Nate Fick are rising stars, and Columbia's shut itself out of that.

Your paycheck's a bit bigger than mine, but I'd bet an EBR (evil black rifle) on the 15 year timeline.

What's the story with ERAU? As far as I can gather, the school has been around for a while, it has a large AFROTC program, but didn't get NROTC until 2003 or thereabouts.

 

[CWJones411]

You'd be surprised. Academics, the moonbats aside...

...would remove a fairly significant portion of their population.

 

[lmnop]

I'd bet an EBR (evil black rifle) on the 15 year timeline.

Not to derail this discussion, but your new acronym is already in use.....

 

[phrogdriver]

At my alma mater, Penn, they just moved the ROTC programs from primo campus real estate to a remote outpost at the edge of campus during the Vietnam War.

They have been self-flagellating for over a decade over DADT, but have yet to pull the trigger on anything substantive, other than not allowing the staff to be full "faculty" members.

In the end, the agitators generally scream and yell, but the decision-makers are, for better or worse, part of the establishment, who hate change, and who have a buy-in to the status quo. Major university figures are prominent figures in local/state/national politics and don't get paid to rock the boat. They stroke the egos of radicals and generally let sleeping dogs lie.

For the radicals, would they rather have the military run solely by state U grads from the deep South, or by people who have at least been exposed to their bastions of liberal thought?

 

[OccamsRazor]

You might be surprised....

For the radicals, would they rather have the military run solely by state U grads from the deep South, or by people who have at least been exposed to their bastions of liberal thought?

Some of them don't want a military at all, which is at least a consistent position. The rest....I have no idea. They seem to think having ROTC on campus will turn Columbia into an army base that suppresses free speech and stifles intellectual discourse.

Captain Nathaniel Fick has it right - when talking about ROTC at Dartmouth, he said, "...there was a sense that an ROTC program...would militarize the campus. ROTC programs at Ivy League campuses would liberalize the military. That can only be good for this country."

 

[CWJones411]

At my alma mater, Penn, they just moved the ROTC programs from primo campus real estate to a remote outpost at the edge of campus during the Vietnam War.

They did the same thing at Miami U. Now the building at the center of campus with the anchors on the outside is filled with these: