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COMAIR Mid-Air..."Hit? By what?"
- Thread starter Schnugg
- Start date
It was in 2002, the guys were convicted last year. I don't know how accurate the Wikipedia link is:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2155479.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_airshow_disaster
COMAIR is not only an airline, it is used as an abbreviation for Commercial Air by military folk. That is what Schugg meant. The plane was a new purchase by "ExcelAire Service Inc., a charter and aircraft management company based in Ronkonkoma, N.Y".
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/02/w...46567b3ec&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
THAT'S IT ???? That's the "best" you can do ????
... @ 4 years ... 8 posts .... sheeeeesh.It has been known to happen with US military planes too......
Partial thread jack...
My ignorance aside, but what happened with the crew (possibley EA-6B) that clipped a ski lift cable in Europe a couple years back unfortunately resulting in loss of life?
Mefesto said:
I don't enjoy hearing about the possibility of a rush to "justice" in foreign countries, especially with regards to Americans. My hopes that the facts, and justice come out on your friends side.
Military and civilian operate under a completely different set of rules as far as jurisdiction and status in the court system (Status Of Forces Agreement). That said, the Italian government wanted to charge/try the Marines involved in the mishap. They were eventually handled by the US military justice system. There are lots of details on the web, so I won't belabor the point.
Brett
If you want to get a glimpse as to how South American ops can eat your lunch study the AA 965 accident report. Unlike this accident it was a CFIT
accident but it pointed out the differences between US ATC and south of the border ATC. I've not flown in South America, our Miami crews do most of that, but my time will be coming and friends of mine who fly there regularly are unanimous in stating there are a lot of things done differently down South.
Sounds like the Jungle Jet crew did an outstanding job of getting that plane on the ground in a max pucker factor situation.
accident but it pointed out the differences between US ATC and south of the border ATC. I've not flown in South America, our Miami crews do most of that, but my time will be coming and friends of mine who fly there regularly are unanimous in stating there are a lot of things done differently down South.
Sounds like the Jungle Jet crew did an outstanding job of getting that plane on the ground in a max pucker factor situation.
That crew was cut loose by the Marines from the moment they got on the ground. They were handed over to the Italians early on with no representation and no help from the US. They had to call a American lawyer in Rome to get help......
One of the back-seaters was in VT-86 when I went through and he gave a 2-3 hour brief at a safety stand-down and I talked to him a few times after debriefing a flight. It was a pretty charged brief at the stand-down, you could tell it still weighed on him heavily. He was very blunt how the Marines left them out to dry in the beginning. He said it was a big eye-opener, he was a little cynical about it. One thing that he mentioned was that during the court-martial proceedings (they eventually dropped the charges against him and the other back-seater) they introduced into evidence every single grade sheet of his from flight school, with all of his Belows' tabbed and a tally of what they were for
.One of the most suprising things was that there was never a mishap investigation. The Safety Center sent at least one of their staff out there to do the investigation. When he got there the MAW CG told him that he was to turn over all the investigation results/notes/findings to him at the end to be used as evidence in the court-martials. When the Safety Center guy balked and told him no, he was left hanging and eventually went home without doing the investigation.
By the way, the pictures of the Prowler were nothing short of jaw-dropping.....Grumman Ironworks lived up its name.
That would NEVER have happened back-in-the-day ... I just don't know how present day military "management" can expect loyalty from their subordinates when loyalty doesn't flow down the chain as well as up ....
...I'm really glad I served when I did.... in spite of any problems we might have had ... not standing by your men was not one of them ....
*edit* .. just so there is no misunderstanding ... back-in-the-day ... you could lose your Wings and get sent home -- literally; I witnessed it more than once -- and more serious "crimes" had more serious penalties .... but UNCLE would NEVER, EVER turn his back on "his boys" and hand them over to foreign jurisdictions.
Mefesto said:
I'd expect just what happened when cover your own ass "leadership" is "in charge" ... and like I implied ... I'm glad I'm not in today.
P.S. ... I'm not one of your .... "dudes". Save it for your contemporaries. Comprende??? I'll make you a deal you can't refuse: Don't call me "dude" and I won't call you "dud" ....
Maybe Oki was always a "delicate" proposition ... politically, and still is .... and we didn't spend any time there, other than to typhoon-bingo into Naha once and tear up the O'Club. They said don't ever come back, so we beat up the field on departure ....
... and followed their instructions to never go back.But in Nippon proper, ROK, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Philippines ... even Mombassa, Kenya --- the local constablulary ALWAYS turned the flotsam and jetsam over to the Shore Patrol for disposal. I can't think of any exceptions ....
All flying infractions were referred to local military jurisdiction as well, even if it involved President Marcos .... and it did, on one occasion ...
Thank you, youngster .... and "old man" will usually work.Mefesto said: