Comm discussion

[invertedflyer]

Wow an actual comm discussion on airwarriors. This as about as likely as joboy finding a date for the Navy ball.

Kind of a waste for the CO to swipe a -148 if you ask me. Too few of them out there to waste on something like that. If you guys don't want them, I could always use one more

I couldn't agree more... we were not happy that the CO stole our vehicle. Not only that... but I was seperated from my section for a day and half... and unfortunately I was the NCO that signed for all the comm gear. It rubbed some people the wrong way. The CO also requested his own radio watch... which was unneeded because the COC was walking distance and we could have given him a squad radio or field phone. The COC was also short-handed... long story.

The -148 is a great comm platform. Talking HF, UHF and VHF hi and lo all in one vehicle is awesome. The SINGLE coolest thing about this vehicle: you can turn the vehicle on and off without turning the radios to STBY We all love it for that. Getting into Satcom and stuff with the PRC-117s is fun as well, it sounds like you're taking to your next door neighbor. The downside to the vehicle is that its much more timely to set up and program the radios... takes at least 3 times as long. Its a worthwile trade-off for mission capability though, anyone would agree with that.

Everyone needs comm to some extent... we're the first people to know about stuff.... also the last section to secure (usually). Glad to hear about some radio stuff on here... Gaijin I'm sure you're drawing from your DASC experience... Phrog were you conducting FAC duties when you were working with the -148s? I'm looking forward to working with more airborne comm stuff other than talking to SOCAL Approach.

My unit doesn't use HF often, but when we have its pretty impressive. As long as you're grounded properly.

EDIT: Anytime the air is cold comm is better (ie at night). Over water there are potential issues with radio wave reflection, however.

Thanks Mods for creating a seperate thread.

 

[gaijin6423]

Thanks to gatordev for splitting the threads. I was starting to feel bad... Okay, so I wasn't.

HF isn't that difficult to work with, provided you know what you're doing. It's just disconcerting to hear some of the random weird shit that you pick up. SATCOM is nice, and there are nets that I always push to use it for, but it presents challenges of its own. The -148 is more difficult to set up? Than what? Perhaps you just need to get some decent comm guys, like the ones that work for me.

 

[Gatordev]

No problem.

On my first deployment, there was another ship in theatre that had the smuggling HF freqs and had a constant spanish-speaking radio watch on the radio in Combat. They kept getting bust after bust while the rest of us were left holding our cranks. The word never really got out until the end of that ship's deployment, and it was not much appreciated by several CO's as well as the COC in theatre.

I just want to know what the counting stations are...

 

[invertedflyer]

^^ I would be comparing setting up the MRC-148 to the standard MRC-145s that we still use fairly often. Granted the previous HF platfrom MRC-138s took forever to set up. As far as MRC-145s are concerned, they were the primary VHF platforms (and we use VHF the most for our comm ops). Now that we have the new stuff nobody is really complaining though.

As far as our comm guys... they've all done multipe deployments to Iraq and Africa... however, they do get rusty ... always nice to have some active duty guys around.

 

[gaijin6423]

Regardless of whether it's a -145 or a -148 (I have both for my det), for DASC-type ops, we're setting up an OE. Most, if not all of our actual controlling is done on UHF, and we need line of sight for that. For ASE (think MEU) ops, we don't always have the time/manpower to do that, so proper site selection is key. There are various tools out there to assist us with that, as well.

I think the other ships' captains were probably just pissed that they didn't think of it first. Makes sense to me, though.

 

[A4sForever]

..... Over water there are potential issues with radio wave reflection, however......

Who told you that??? Not to worry ... HF works like the 100 year old champ that it is, 80% of the time. Where do you think we used HF in the 747 while crossing the Pacific ???? Just watch out for those sun spots and solar flares, however ...

 

[Gatordev]

I think the other ships' captains were probably just pissed that they didn't think of it first. Makes sense to me, though.

No doubt, but there was the little issue of obtaining the intel, which the first ship was lucky to get their hands on. Who knows if the freqs ever went up the chain of command. I'm not sure which is worse, the CO didn't forward valuable intel up the chain or he did, but the Operational COC didn't send it out to everyone else. I'd guess the latter, but who knows.

 

[Gatordev]

Who told you that??? Not to worry ... HF works like the 100 year old champ that it is, 80% of the time. Where do you think we used HF in the 747 while crossing the Pacific ???? Just watch out for those sun spots and solar flares, however ...

Concur. For the last several years, when emailing my parents who are on a sailboat (long story), it's been via HF. Works great, albeit slow throughput.

 

[invertedflyer]

Not to worry ... HF works like the 100 year old champ that it is, 80% of the time. Where do you think we used HF in the 747 while crossing the Pacific ???? Just watch out for those sun spots and solar flares, however ...

Not using HF... VHF becuase the ground waves would then reflect.

Gaijin. First off thanks for the info, I have 0 experience working with a DASC. We work with the OEs a lot though. Our last Annual Training that we did up in Washington they had me set up the Retrans site... we used a MRC-145 with 2 OEs... which we actually broke down into mini-OEs (half the amount of mast sections) because we had the terrain. Site placement IS key, spot on! RTX is also key if you're moving a BN sized element, any size element for that matter.

Everyone hates setting up those OEs though It can go fast if you have enough guys.

 

[gaijin6423]

According to the manual, ONE Marine (I think it actually says 'soldier') can set up an OE in 10 minutes. We can set two up in about 15-20 min, but that's with both my comm guys and all my DASC guys busting their asses. Unfortunately, if we're operating in Lejeune, we're pretty much always setting them up, and it doesn't always help.

 

[phrogpilot73]

RULE of THUMB: The higher the sun ... the higher the freq. The lower the sun, the lower the freq. ... for starters....

I wish that the MEU that I went out with understood that... They kept publishing an ACEOI that only had ONE HF freq for a net. We kept telling them that they needed two - one for day, one for night. They didn't listen, and kept scratching their heads... Wondering why they couldn't talk to us via HF...

The -148 is a great comm platform. Talking HF, UHF and VHF hi and lo all in one vehicle is awesome. The downside to the vehicle is that its much more timely to set up and program the radios... takes at least 3 times as long. Its a worthwile trade-off for mission capability though, anyone would agree with that.

I agree, it's an awesome vehicle. Especially since I could reach out and touch any asset that was being controlled because of the power. I mostly relied on the power when the FACs were having problems because of LOS issues, and I'd relay. Set up time (from what I saw) was about the same because of that damn HF antenna... Never used a OE with my vehicle - but we have taped a donkey dick on to the HF antenna to get better LOS... Did I mention I had a phenomenal RTO? All I had to do was hand him a copy of the ACEOI, and before we left the ship all my freqs, crpyto, hopsets, etc... were already loaded. Simply a matter of turning on the radios and throwing up the HF antenna. He was also smart enough to avoid the CommO and CO, so that whenever I needed him, he was available.

He got picked up for BOOST, and is headed off to college. He wants to be a Cobra pilot, no matter how much I tried to sway him towards Assault Support...

Phrog were you conducting FAC duties when you were working with the -148s?

Not FAC duties the way you're thinking. I wasn't controlling as much air as the FACs, I was the Battalion Air Officer so I was in the COC working with the FSCC. The AirO rates his own 148, since he's a critical element of the FSCC. During a couple of exercises we set up as a vehicle only COC. The vehicles included my MRC-148, the NGLO's MRC-148, S-3's truck, FSC's truck, and the CO's MRC-145. Sometimes it was scaled down, when we hit the range in Kuwait we only had me, the NGLO and the FSC's truck... Fun times...

 

[The Chief]

I .... We kept telling them that they needed two - one for day, one for night. They didn't listen, and kept scratching their heads... Wondering why they couldn't talk to us via HF......

LoL

 

[invertedflyer]

I wish that the MEU that I went out with understood that... They kept publishing an ACEOI that only had ONE HF freq for a net. We kept telling them that they needed two - one for day, one for night. They didn't listen, and kept scratching their heads... Wondering why they couldn't talk to us via HF...


I agree, it's an awesome vehicle. Especially since I could reach out and touch any asset that was being controlled because of the power. I mostly relied on the power when the FACs were having problems because of LOS issues, and I'd relay.....

If I remember correctly we sent in our old MRC-138s to be retro-fitted as MRC-148s. They came back with that huge island of comm gear and cables going everywhere... looks almost space age. When I first set up RTX for AT I did a lot of relaying for LOS issuse. Comm would come in an out as units would move around the terrain. After a while everyone was talking and I proceeded to post a radio watch and execute RTXs top priority mission.... eating snacks, reading magazines, and sleeping.

Theres no replacement for a good RTO. This last AT that we did I really dove into some of the finer points of my MOS. That DOES include the carefully managed art of POGIE-bait selection. Comm bubbas being known for this, you must make sure to know your jerkies, know the appropriate method of spitting sunflower seeds, and carry either a Monster or Arizona iced tea at all times! If the RTO is locked in things run smoothly, if hes lazy things can be extremely frustrating. In my batallion we also have 2 Command and Control LAVs (C-squared as we call them). They carry pretty much two of every radio. One of our biggeset issues is fixing those vehicles, and I was lucky enough to have a radio tech teach me how.

Thats interesting about the FSCC... thats something I really haven't had that much exposure to. When I see "BN FSC" on our smart pak its usually just an obscure number that we often don't use. Naturally it makes sense for you to operate independently with your own -148. Now taking OUT some of the old equipment for those trucks was just plain miserable... Back to FSC, since I'm with H&S Co., I wish we would actually train with a quote FSC and actually program the freq. There are a couple other freqs. that we typically don't use for training. IMO our young Radio Operators need exposure to that. We also hardly ever talk about calling for fire or talking to air. I'm sure if we went to war tomorrow we would, but still... the training could be better (but thats a discussion for a different and much more boring thread hehe).

 

[Screamtruth]

Ahhh...the wonderful COC and RTX sites

If I remember correctly we sent in our old MRC-138s to be retro-fitted as MRC-148s. They came back with that huge island of comm gear and cables going everywhere... looks almost space age. When I first set up RTX for AT I did a lot of relaying for LOS issuse. Comm would come in an out as units would move around the terrain. After a while everyone was talking and I proceeded to post a radio watch and execute RTXs top priority mission.... eating snacks, reading magazines, and sleeping.

Theres no replacement for a good RTO. This last AT that we did I really dove into some of the finer points of my MOS. That DOES include the carefully managed art of POGIE-bait selection. Comm bubbas being known for this, you must make sure to know your jerkies, know the appropriate method of spitting sunflower seeds, and carry either a Monster or Arizona iced tea at all times! If the RTO is locked in things run smoothly, if hes lazy things can be extremely frustrating. In my batallion we also have 2 Command and Control LAVs (C-squared as we call them). They carry pretty much two of every radio. One of our biggeset issues is fixing those vehicles, and I was lucky enough to have a radio tech teach me how.

Thats interesting about the FSCC... thats something I really haven't had that much exposure to. When I see "BN FSC" on our smart pak its usually just an obscure number that we often don't use. Naturally it makes sense for you to operate independently with your own -148. Now taking OUT some of the old equipment for those trucks was just plain miserable... Back to FSC, since I'm with H&S Co., I wish we would actually train with a quote FSC and actually program the freq. There are a couple other freqs. that we typically don't use for training. IMO our young Radio Operators need exposure to that. We also hardly ever talk about calling for fire or talking to air. I'm sure if we went to war tomorrow we would, but still... the training could be better (but thats a discussion for a different and much more boring thread hehe).

I spent a fair bit of time on radio watch in the lovely COC................what a pisser.



Our RTX challenges came when we went to Panama for JOTC training, and had to rig up RTX sites all over the place. Since I was the TACP chief and we did not have much Air work to do..................guess what all the TACP teams were doing? RTX...................................sites OE's Rock.



Are your TACP bubbas still using the PRC-138's for UHF, PRC-104's for HF?

Or has everything been phased out with newer tech?


Nathan

 

[phrogpilot73]

Are your TACP bubbas still using the PRC-138's for UHF, PRC-104's for HF?

Or has everything been phased out with newer tech?

Ummm, no. We did have PRC-138's on hand (we were supposed to survey them, but I got the comm chief to keep three - my argument was "Hey, if everything goes to shit - I've got solid state Vietnam era technology to call in a CASEVAC") but they were hardly ever used. We didn't even have PRC-104's in the Bn.

The FACs went out with:
PRC-148 (VHF, UHF) as primary - nice radio, handheld and you can get headsets.
PRC-117 (VHF, UHF, SATCOM) as secondary - also very nice radio

I (the AirO) had:
MRC-148 which consists of
PRC-117
PRC-150 (HF)

If I was going out with a Company, I'd go out with the same as the FACs, but preferred the PRC-117 as my primary.