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Conning, Helmsmen, Port/Starboard Watch standing > what a awesome First Class Cruise
- Thread starter mules83
- Start date
Hmmm....Manta, Equador anyone? Anyone, anyone? Yea, I'd rather be underway.skidkid said:
skidkid said:
I have nothing against Maine, I was really quite scenic, but a liberty port does suck when all a town contains is a bar and you're under 21. We also had no means of transport to Portland or Bar Harbor otherwise I would have left.
skidkid said:
I'll make my response to that prefacing it with the fact that I wasn't one of those people that wanted to debark early. However, when we got back from out first underway we had the 4th of July weekend and had 6 days of liberty with nothing to do and nowhere to go. It's easy to say go to VA Beach, DC, etc.., but for someone who didn't want to go into debt (although in the end I did) on cruise we really had nothing to do. When we secured from liberty a 1/C decided to send up a request for us to go home early, our Midshipman Training Officer completely agreed and said he would do everything in his power to make it happen, because he said there was no reason for us to be there past the 2 week minimum. I would say at least a 1/3 of the crew was gone at various schools and on leave, and there literally was nothing for the remaining crew, much less the eight MIDN on board, to do. That was the reasoning, our training occured during our time off the NC coast, the other 3 weeks were a waste. In the end the XO denied the request, and I was happy to stay.
defiant85 said:
I may be completely wrong, being a nugget who's only sea experience is mid cruise and a couple of trips to the boat for RLQ's.... BUT
The point of Midshipman cruise (especially 1/C cruise) is to learn what being a Junior Officer in a community is all about. The boat/sqd/or sub does not need to be out at sea or on det for this to happen! Especially when the underway period is spent watching movies and sleeping.
I can understand that when he wardroom is telling you that it is ok to sleep all day, that it is real easy to do that. Do yourself a favor, get out of bed (or off the wardroom couch) and go see what being a SWO/PILOT/NUKE.... is all about. When you say that the ship was not going to be at sea anymore, therefore there was nothing else to be learned, is wrong. It may not be as interesting, but seeing how a JO manages his division on a ship or maintainers in a sqd while ashore is just as much a part of his job description as flying or conning.
Anyway I am ranting, but all you mids who are about to go on cruise or for next year, get out of your racks and go learn something, you never know, it may help you make a service selection decision that you may not have made b4 hand. (it did for me).
Steve Wilkins said:
Let me just say I doubt there's anyone who detests Manta more than me, but it's actually been cleaned up a bit. I was surprised. It's still dirty, but when you end up downing 9 bottles of wine between 3 people, and then come across the brow 10 minutes late w/ the XO, who cares.
In defense of all of us MIDS who go on summer cruise and do not hang around the squadron/ship all day long, most of the people in the squadrons would rather have it that way it seems. Every day so far on my cruise, we have been told to go out and enjoy our summer. I am at VS-41 in San Diego right now, and every LT flight instructor there has told us to go out and have fun. They have us come in at 1300ish every day, and looked at us as crazy the day we came in at 0830. They said the only real time we should be there is to fly and go in the sim. Granted, most of us there want to learn as much as we can about the community there, but it when a bunch of LTs go off and tell you to leave, you would be foolish to stick around and be poked fun at for not going out and enjoying the town. And from what I've heard, it seems that the aviation summer cruises all amount to a similar experience as the one I am having.
So you do socialize with SWO's. I had a sneaky suspicion.gatordev said:It's still dirty, but when you end up downing 9 bottles of wine between 3 people, and then come across the brow 10 minutes late w/ the XO, who cares.
gatordev said:Let me just say I doubt there's anyone who detests Manta more than me, but it's actually been cleaned up a bit. I was surprised. It's still dirty, but when you end up downing 9 bottles of wine between 3 people, and then come across the brow 10 minutes late w/ the XO, who cares.
3 bottles of wine? Good man.
Oh, it was quite the evening. And I think our XO could have been an honorary aviator...or at least a LAMPS one. I think the evening culminated in a deal w/ one of the local "purveyors" arranging a "demonstration" w/ some of his employees for our DISBO. It was about that time that we had 5 minutes until liberty secured, we were 10 minutes from the ship, and still haven't payed for our tabs. I'm a bit hazy on the details, but I just remember the XO grabbing all our tab/punch cards and telling us to go get a cab.
Fly Navy said:
Absolutely correct. Had a female mid who stated she has always just considered aviation cause daddy was a naval aviator but had no idea what it REALLY involved. It was an eye opener for her and an affirmation for me
Aviation cruises have many benefits (as do SWO/Nuke cruises) and should not be taken away from any Midshipman in my opinion.~jai5w4 :icon_smil
A noble tradition adrift.
bch is undoubtedly correct. But from the sampling of experiences of Mids on 1/C cruise presented here, the ships and squadrons seem to be ambivalent at best toward the presence of the Mids.
My 3/C cruise was 6 weeks with only one week underway. Ironically, we visited a sleepy little West Coast beach town that sounded a lot like Belfast, Maine described in this string of testimonials. My 1/C cruise was also 6 weeks, all of it except one, terrific 4-day port visit, underway and in the combat zone (Gulf of Tonkin). The two cruises were indeed worlds apart. 3/C cruise was abysmal; in contrast 1/C cruise was almost as good as ..., well you know.
I hold the opinion that the best place for a Mid to learn what it's like to be a naval officer is to live in the naval officers environment, i.e., what today we call summer cruises. It is that noble tradition which stems back to the Royal Navy which embarked Mids as pre-teens who stayed on ships for years until they qualified to become Ensigns. (I'm not advocating anything like this. I'm just pointing it out that Mids living with Navy units and close to naval officers has been a proven path to becoming a junior officer.) But the other half of this concept is the "running mate" whereby the wardroom JOs take an active interest in orienting, at a detailed level, the Mid into what the DivOff does - at the deck plate level. I got this on my 1/C cruise. But from the comments of Mids here, the JOs were ambivalent at best and typically indifferent to the presence of the Mids.
If a Mid comes away from a summer cruise with a preference for earning money at a summer job and not being with the fleet after being encouraged to just sleep and goof off, how can they be blamed. "The Fleet" ostensibly took no interest in them. It was just either too busy or too self-absorbed to give them the sort of deck-level orientation and familiarization into what the DivOff is and does.
Looking at this situation at a higher level, I would presume that if 1/C Mids are returning to their units and not articulating their disatisfaction with their cruise experiences then nothing will change. If a significant number are reporting disatisfaction and some sort of trend is detected, then maybe, just maybe, NROTC Unit COs might register the sum of this dissatisfaction with CNET. I say maybe because unless the level of dissatisfaction is significant, nothing will change.
I hold the view that while Ensigns are still learning they should report aboard their first ship with a lot more knowledge than how to sleep and watch TV. Frankly, if Mid cruises are, more often than not, like the ones described here, then why bother having them and why bother having an NROTC Program.
bch said:
bch is undoubtedly correct. But from the sampling of experiences of Mids on 1/C cruise presented here, the ships and squadrons seem to be ambivalent at best toward the presence of the Mids.
My 3/C cruise was 6 weeks with only one week underway. Ironically, we visited a sleepy little West Coast beach town that sounded a lot like Belfast, Maine described in this string of testimonials. My 1/C cruise was also 6 weeks, all of it except one, terrific 4-day port visit, underway and in the combat zone (Gulf of Tonkin). The two cruises were indeed worlds apart. 3/C cruise was abysmal; in contrast 1/C cruise was almost as good as ..., well you know.
I hold the opinion that the best place for a Mid to learn what it's like to be a naval officer is to live in the naval officers environment, i.e., what today we call summer cruises. It is that noble tradition which stems back to the Royal Navy which embarked Mids as pre-teens who stayed on ships for years until they qualified to become Ensigns. (I'm not advocating anything like this. I'm just pointing it out that Mids living with Navy units and close to naval officers has been a proven path to becoming a junior officer.) But the other half of this concept is the "running mate" whereby the wardroom JOs take an active interest in orienting, at a detailed level, the Mid into what the DivOff does - at the deck plate level. I got this on my 1/C cruise. But from the comments of Mids here, the JOs were ambivalent at best and typically indifferent to the presence of the Mids.
If a Mid comes away from a summer cruise with a preference for earning money at a summer job and not being with the fleet after being encouraged to just sleep and goof off, how can they be blamed. "The Fleet" ostensibly took no interest in them. It was just either too busy or too self-absorbed to give them the sort of deck-level orientation and familiarization into what the DivOff is and does.
Looking at this situation at a higher level, I would presume that if 1/C Mids are returning to their units and not articulating their disatisfaction with their cruise experiences then nothing will change. If a significant number are reporting disatisfaction and some sort of trend is detected, then maybe, just maybe, NROTC Unit COs might register the sum of this dissatisfaction with CNET. I say maybe because unless the level of dissatisfaction is significant, nothing will change.
I hold the view that while Ensigns are still learning they should report aboard their first ship with a lot more knowledge than how to sleep and watch TV. Frankly, if Mid cruises are, more often than not, like the ones described here, then why bother having them and why bother having an NROTC Program.
I completely agree with USN99 with what he just said. I do believe the primary goal of the cruises has been lost over the years. From the CO/XO of the ship to the brand new ensigns, we were told stories how they did the same activities that we did and we were not expected to go above and beyond and try to get our swo pin on the 4 week adventure (figuratively speaking). Due to not having fear of having a bad rap sheet sent back to my unit and not having any motivation towards SWO’s (sorry if that offends anyone), I had a hard time walking around and learning such things like how the SPY1D operated. If I become a swo, so be it, I will do the best job possible and catch up then. If you ask me about learning leadership traits and how to run sailors below me, I probably learned more being with enlisted in supply berthing watching family guy listening to their suggestions and stories about good and bad leaders in the past. Most of the JO's were standing 6 hour watches twice a day and during their free time, were sleeping or in their staterooms doing paperwork and sending off emails. More senior officers were always in meetings or off the ship for training. I probably learned more leadership from one of the chiefs I talked to for over an hour in the bar in Maine. Yeah i was a little drunk, but I still remember what he said it will help me in the future. I just want to make sure if you guys meet me ever (hopefully in p-cola), you don’t think me as a slacker or a guy who doesn’t care.
/preface... it has been a almost 4 years since I was one cruise so things could have changed ( I doubt it though).
By no means am I suggesting that the mids in this thread are guilty of this... just throwing it out there.
USN99, I totally agree with your statments about the sqd/ship/station need to do their part as well.... to an extent.
On every one of my cruises there were mids who wanted to learn and mids who wanted to sleep. The ones who made it clear that they just wanted to sleep were usually the ones making the first impression (IE... ok the mids are sleeping again, those who aren't will be shortly once they figure out that they won't get in trouble for it). After that impression was made, it is hard to entice people to take time out of their schedule to teach/mentor/advise mids when the apparent attitude is one of "who cares."
Usually after about half of the cruise was over, they would figure out who was interested in sleeping and who was interested in learning and things would get better.
The best advice I was ever given on cruise... the squeaky wheel gets the grease...
Be the one mid who shows up to the watch that he was assigned, even if you are really just expected to blow it off and go watch a movie. If it is a 2nd class cruise, go help (or observe) your running mate do some PMS ( you would be surprised who someone can go from being "damn I have to babbysit this stupid mid," to actually caring since you took time out of your schedule to help them or learn from them while they are doing something, that most would call mundane or boring.
As I have said time and again, I am a firm believer that cruise is what you make of it. While I completely agree that most sqd/ship/etc may act like they don't give a damn about the mids, but I think it is the result of having mid after mid who only wants to sleep, watch movies or get off the boat.
By no means am I suggesting that the mids in this thread are guilty of this... just throwing it out there.
USN99, I totally agree with your statments about the sqd/ship/station need to do their part as well.... to an extent.
On every one of my cruises there were mids who wanted to learn and mids who wanted to sleep. The ones who made it clear that they just wanted to sleep were usually the ones making the first impression (IE... ok the mids are sleeping again, those who aren't will be shortly once they figure out that they won't get in trouble for it). After that impression was made, it is hard to entice people to take time out of their schedule to teach/mentor/advise mids when the apparent attitude is one of "who cares."
Usually after about half of the cruise was over, they would figure out who was interested in sleeping and who was interested in learning and things would get better.
The best advice I was ever given on cruise... the squeaky wheel gets the grease...
Be the one mid who shows up to the watch that he was assigned, even if you are really just expected to blow it off and go watch a movie. If it is a 2nd class cruise, go help (or observe) your running mate do some PMS ( you would be surprised who someone can go from being "damn I have to babbysit this stupid mid," to actually caring since you took time out of your schedule to help them or learn from them while they are doing something, that most would call mundane or boring.
As I have said time and again, I am a firm believer that cruise is what you make of it. While I completely agree that most sqd/ship/etc may act like they don't give a damn about the mids, but I think it is the result of having mid after mid who only wants to sleep, watch movies or get off the boat.
He's right
bcn is right. Mids can make of cruise what they choose. The comment about showing some interest which will overcome apparent indifference is also a very telling comment.
If you display genuine interest in learning what the Sailor, Chief, or JO is doing, you will eventually (maybe also painfully) overcome their indifference. You'll also find the ones in ships company who will always be indifferent or hostile to mids and the ones who are more open-minded.
I spend my first underway time in the boiler room of a tin can with some pretty colorful BTs. They were only too willing to show the middie way too many things - many of which were quite un-Navy.
But among all their sea stories, there was some good technical info and, indirectly, some leadership lessons.
In the Gulf of Tonkin, while everyone was indeed on a war-footing, there were JOs who were willing to share their knowledge (but not port visits). And yes, one or two Mids were more interested in sleeping and some of us were more interested in standing extra bridge watches.
bcn is right. Mids can make of cruise what they choose. The comment about showing some interest which will overcome apparent indifference is also a very telling comment.
If you display genuine interest in learning what the Sailor, Chief, or JO is doing, you will eventually (maybe also painfully) overcome their indifference. You'll also find the ones in ships company who will always be indifferent or hostile to mids and the ones who are more open-minded.
I spend my first underway time in the boiler room of a tin can with some pretty colorful BTs. They were only too willing to show the middie way too many things - many of which were quite un-Navy.
But among all their sea stories, there was some good technical info and, indirectly, some leadership lessons. In the Gulf of Tonkin, while everyone was indeed on a war-footing, there were JOs who were willing to share their knowledge (but not port visits). And yes, one or two Mids were more interested in sleeping and some of us were more interested in standing extra bridge watches.