COPT-R Program Questions

[Redstool]

Trying to figure out a bit more about the COPT-R program - hearing a lot about it, but the specifics and details aren't totally clear to me, so I have a couple questions if anyone could help me out. At what point does an SNA get to volunteer for it, and is there a wait time between NIFE and it? Since it's a pilot program, did they take one batch of students and are they now holding off until they see tangible results, or are they taking people on a rolling basis? Realistically, how much reduction in training time is it for COPT-R grads (something like 2.5 years down to 1.5-2 maybe?)? And as far as platform selection, do COPT-R graduates select into the VRM community along with HSC and HSM?

And as a theoretical question, if a COPT-R graduate later on in their career applied for an Aviation Warfare Transition Board to a fixed-wing platform, would COPT-R be a significant detriment to them having not gone through Primary?

If anyone just knows generally a lot about the program, or has any links to some exhaustive explanations of COPT-R, that would be great too. Would appreciate any info y'all have!

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Trying to figure out a bit more about the COPT-R program - hearing a lot about it, but the specifics and details aren't totally clear to me, so I have a couple questions if anyone could help me out. At what point does an SNA get to volunteer for it, and is there a wait time between NIFE and it? Since it's a pilot program, did they take one batch of students and are they now holding off until they see tangible results, or are they taking people on a rolling basis? Realistically, how much reduction in training time is it for COPT-R grads (something like 2.5 years down to 1.5-2 maybe?)? And as far as platform selection, do COPT-R graduates select into the VRM community along with HSC and HSM?

And as a theoretical question, if a COPT-R graduate later on in their career applied for an Aviation Warfare Transition Board to a fixed-wing platform, would COPT-R be a significant detriment to them having not gone through Primary?

If anyone just knows generally a lot about the program, or has any links to some exhaustive explanations of COPT-R, that would be great too. Would appreciate any info y'all have!

Someone created a similar post a few weeks back asking the same things.

Redirect here: https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/flight-school-backed-up.49127/page-65

 

[ChuckMK23]

Post in thread 'Flight School backed up' https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/flight-school-backed-up.49127/post-1138979

 

[FlyNavy03]

Post in thread 'Flight School backed up' https://www.airwarriors.com/community/threads/flight-school-backed-up.49127/post-1138979

@ChuckMK23, Mind if I restart this here? The 'Flight School Backed Up" thread is a bit long for people looking for answers.

For everyone else, I'm the current OIC of COPT-R. If you've got questions, odds are I have answers.

At what point does an SNA get to volunteer for it, and is there a wait time between NIFE and it?

You'll get your first chance to select it while you're waiting to class up for NIFE. You may even be able to skip to the head of the NIFE line by doing so. Just make sure it's really what you want before you make that commitment. As far as post-NIFE waiting, depending on your timing you might have a couple of months or a couple of weeks. Probably closer to the latter.

Since it's a pilot program, did they take one batch of students and are they now holding off until they see tangible results, or are they taking people on a rolling basis?

So far, 80 pilots have graduated from COPT-R. There are currently 24 here with another 8 arriving in two weeks. The plan is to have a class of 8 start every 2-3 weeks for the foreseeable future. COPT-R is still technically experimental, but CNAF has already called for it to get bigger.

Realistically, how much reduction in training time is it for COPT-R grads (something like 2.5 years down to 1.5-2 maybe?)

COPT-R students are winging about 7 months before the SMAs that they went to NIFE with, on average. There are several uncontrollable factors that go into that so your mileage may vary. That does not include the head-of-the-NIFE-line privileges possibly being offered to volunteers. (I say possibly because I know they've offered that in the past, but I'm not sure if it's still going on).

And as far as platform selection, do COPT-R graduates select into the VRM community along with HSC and HSM?

Nope. VRM is still it's own beast.

And as a theoretical question, if a COPT-R graduate later on in their career applied for an Aviation Warfare Transition Board to a fixed-wing platform, would COPT-R be a significant detriment to them having not gone through Primary?

Theoretically, you'd have the same chance as everyone else. They'd probably just treat you like an NFO transition, which is to say you'd still have to go through most of a Primary syllabus on the path to whatever platform you will ultimately regret transitioning to since helicopters are awesome! That being said, in 20 years of flying I've known exactly one winged pilot that successfully changed types.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Strong work @FlyNavy03 !!!

I have mentioned this before and I took some rounds to the chest for mentioning it - but rhetorically, I would not be surprised if there is someone (‘good idea fairy’) at OSD looking at the AF and Navy programs and thinking of a potential “Joint DOD Helicopter Flying School” a la what the UK does.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Strong work @FlyNavy03 !!!

I have mentioned this before and I took some rounds to the chest for mentioning it - but rhetorically, I would not be surprised if there is someone (‘good idea fairy’) at OSD looking at the AF and Navy programs and thinking of a potential “Joint DOD Helicopter Flying School” a la what the UK does.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone somewhere in DoD is thinking about it, but there honestly wouldn't be much to be gained. UK MoD consolidated its helo training programs in '97 as a result of their post-Cold War drawdown/RIFs, when it got to the point that none of the services were producing enough student throughput to justify the overhead costs of maintaining separate programs. As things stand, we essentially already have two joint helicopter training schools, one for maritime focused flying and the other for land-based flying. Neither Novosel nor Whiting have the excess capacity to absorb the other. You could put them under a joint training command, I guess, but what would be the point?

What the AF and Navy took away from their 20-ish years of joint primary squadrons (pilot and NFO/CSO) is that even though it looks good on paper to have them, and I guess there's something to be said for cross-pollination, you don't really wind up with much actual "jointness". Truly combining the programs would mean either AETC or CNATRA would have to surrender oversight and authority over the curriculum and training management, and neither of them are going to do that. Really, you just end up with Navy squadrons with some Air Force dudes in them, and vice-versa.

 

[Uncle Fester]

[COPT-R students are winging about 7 months before the SMAs that they went to NIFE with, on average. There are several uncontrollable factors that go into that so your mileage may vary. That does not include the head-of-the-NIFE-line privileges possibly being offered to volunteers. (I say possibly because I know they've offered that in the past, but I'm not sure if it's still going on).

So their TTT, from classing up at NIFE to wings, is about, what, 12-ish months? If so that's pretty darn good.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Strong work @FlyNavy03 !!!

I have mentioned this before and I took some rounds to the chest for mentioning it - but rhetorically, I would not be surprised if there is someone (‘good idea fairy’) at OSD looking at the AF and Navy programs and thinking of a potential “Joint DOD Helicopter Flying School” a la what the UK does.

This has been considered over and over, but in the end, it is too much concentration in Alabama - and not enough spare capacity and flexibility to quickly expand in the event of a major contingency.

 

[Griz882]

Here is an interesting perspective from Europe…and yes, COPT-R gets notice.

US helicopter training â In a spin?

The US DoD trains thousands of military helicopter pilots each year and these are produced by the US Army, Navy and Air Force to different standards using unique training pipelines and utilizing different training aircraft.

euro-sd.com

 

[FlyNavy03]

Here is an interesting perspective from Europe…and yes, COPT-R gets notice.

US helicopter training â In a spin?

The US DoD trains thousands of military helicopter pilots each year and these are produced by the US Army, Navy and Air Force to different standards using unique training pipelines and utilizing different training aircraft.

euro-sd.com

Very interesting, though not 100% accurate. I think some of that may be stuff getting lost in translation.

It's also wild to see my name in there. The quote comes from the video CNRF put out about me that CNATRA then re-released into the wild. I guess it's made its way across the pond, too.