Cost for getting ME rating or CFI/II rating in JAX with GI Bill

[MasterBates]

- Helo pilot with low fixed wing time trying to enhance his resume. Shows he can pass a corporate or airline training program.

Me in a nutshell.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Thanks for the great info HAL Pilot and A4's.

Master...Bates, you probably know this but I know there are a lot of jobs for helo guys in the civillian sector right now. I don't know how it stacks up to an airline (assuming thats what you're after) but if you haven't, you may want to look into it.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Harrier... ME time not a big deal... When you get your ATP it will be in a Multi-Eng plane... Which will give you MEL rating... For instance, I did mine same day with a harrier bud (I already had MEL on my commercial) and all he had to do was an extra maneuver (Vmc demo or something like that) for the examiner.. Note: ME time looks good on a resume but so does CRM, NATOPS, IP, etc...

I got a MEL on my commercial ticket when I took the equivilancy test when I got winged. The multi-part was restricted to centerline thrust since my multi time was in the T-2C. Any idea how hard/long/expensive/worth it it is to get the restriction removed? Thanks for the gouge. Who is your Harrier bud (PM me callsign if able).

 

[HAL Pilot]

I got a MEL on my commercial ticket when I took the equivilancy test when I got winged. The multi-part was restricted to centerline thrust since my multi time was in the T-2C. Any idea how hard/long/expensive/worth it it is to get the restriction removed? Thanks for the gouge. Who is your Harrier bud (PM me callsign if able).

You'll have to get it removed prior to getting any airline job.

Easiest way - get your ATP. Unless it is in a tactical jet, the aircraft/simulator you use won't be centerline thrust. You'll need the multi ATP anyway to be competative for an airline job. Then it's the regular ATP ride plus a Vmc demo/discussion.

If you just want it off your commercial ticket, you have to demonstrate the single engine and Vmc stuff out of the PTS manual.
- Demonstrate an engine failure before t/o
- Demonstrate an engine failure after t/o
- Demonstrate manuevering with one engine inoperative
- Conduct a Vmc demo
- Demonstrate a single engine approach and landing
- Discuss the principles of engine inoperative flight (Vmc, critical engine, etc.)
This is probably an hour (2 max) with a MEI and than a quick checkride with an examiner.

 

[FrankTheTank]

I think HAL Pilot just about covered it... I will also add the other way is to fly ME in the Navy/USMC and then take your logbooks/natops qual to the local FSDO and have the centerline restriction removed... That is how I had mine removed from my commercial ticket..

 

[saltpeter]

Cobra-Commander: I noticed your location, are you going through the Mesa Program?
The Mesa Program that takes a student from 0 hours to the right seat in 250-300 hours is what some people get mad about. This is known as PFT. But you'll soon find out that after six months on the line, no one will really give two peanuts where you got your training.
Some guys still refer to all commuter pilots as ruining the industry, but the industry is what it is. And it's not going to change, so enjoy the fact that you still have more days off per month than many others in the corporate world.
And marry some that makes serious cash, makes life much more enjoyable. Her money and your travel bennies.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I think HAL Pilot just about covered it... I will also add the other way is to fly ME in the Navy/USMC and then take your logbooks/natops qual to the local FSDO and have the centerline restriction removed... That is how I had mine removed from my commercial ticket..

There you go....taking the easy and cheap way out......

Harrier Dude - if airlines are your post Marine goal, a C-12 farewell tour would be an excellent idea. The more total time the better off you are. Being a tactical jet guy, the lack of ME time won't hurt you too much but if you can bag a bunch flying the C-12 for 2 or 3 years it will help. Plus airlines look a currency. For example, SWA wants 200 hours of flying in the last 36 months. My last tour before retirement was on a staff. There were a bunch of pilots there who were having problems getting airline jobs (1998 when hiring was huge) because they had been out of the cockpit for too long.

Edit: Back in my day, the Navy C-12 guys got trained at a civilian facility in Witchita, KS. They came away with their types and ATPs. I wonder if that still happens and if the Marines do the same too?

 

[HAL Pilot]

Cobra-Commander: I noticed your location, are you going through the Mesa Program?
The Mesa Program that takes a student from 0 hours to the right seat in 250-300 hours is what some people get mad about. This is known as PFT.

Actually I disagree with this. The Mesa program is a flight training program that couples getting your pilot license with getting an Associates degree. Both are exportable. They do throw in the bone of an interview at Mesa after successful completion, but Mesa still has to train the pilot after hiring him. The pilot does not pay additional for the Meas training and Meas pays him during the training.

What pis$es off airline pilots about Mesa are the work rules, pay and QOL at that airline along with the lack of a backbone demonstrated by the pilots there during their last contract negotiations. Plus JO, the CEO, is the biggest scumbag in the industry now. Frank Lorenzo Junior.

But you'll soon find out that after six months on the line, no one will really give two peanuts where you got your training.

I agree with this to a certain extent. The generation of airline pilots just making Captain at the regionals now is very anti-PFT. They are the guys that will soon be sitting on hiring boards. I believe they will remember. But there are enough regional level jobs out there that you can get around the stigma and get a job anyway. It won't be until this younger generation are major Captains or are part of the hiring process at major airlines that having PFTed will effect a pilot being hired at there.

I have worked at one airline where any resume that hinted of PFT went straight into the trash can. This was a place known for taking both low timers and direct hire Captains.

And marry some that makes serious cash, makes life much more enjoyable. Her money and your travel bennies.

If you're going to marry, that's the way to do it. I'd throw in her being hot too as a criteria though....

 

[saltpeter]

Mesa all but guarantees it's students a job for a fee, when they state that they hire 98% of the programs graduates. May people call this buying a job. Personally, it doesn't bother me, it's their money. I had to pay for my rating, so in essence I paid for my job and endured low pay at the hands of a flight school owner and in essence I helped to bring down the industry, I guess. However, I don't think I learned much do laps in the pattern in a 152 with a student that prepared me for commuter flying.

 

[mo7stanley]

I have been looking at getting my MEP MEC and MEI. From a community college it looks like it would be about 5000-6000 for all of it. I don't think that is counting the possible examiner fee for the MEI. I have zero multi time by the way. That would give me the minimum time needed which I believe is 30 hours in ME airplanes for MEI. Also, I already have my CFI for SEL so take that into account.

 

[gtg941f]

You're talking about Pay For Training a-holes, or PFT. Guys that actually PAY the airline for their initial training, just to have a job. People that go work for whorehouses like Gulfstream. Ya... lemme pay 10K up front for a job that pays 21K/year. Those are the guys bringing down the QOL.

go ahead and correct me if i'm wrong but i worked at gulfstream for two years (just finished up) and all of our test pilots I figured were making good money and were incredibly experienced. I know almost all of them have gone through TPS and most have flown several aircraft through 20+ yrs of navy/marine/army experience. I always figured that they had a dream job after talking to them

 

[HAL Pilot]

go ahead and correct me if i'm wrong but i worked at gulfstream for two years (just finished up) and all of our test pilots I figured were making good money and were incredibly experienced. I know almost all of them have gone through TPS and most have flown several aircraft through 20+ yrs of navy/marine/army experience. I always figured that they had a dream job after talking to them

Different Gulfstream.

We are talking about Gulfstream Airlines not Gulfstream the aircraft manufacturer.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I have been looking at getting my MEP MEC and MEI. From a community college it looks like it would be about 5000-6000 for all of it. I don't think that is counting the possible examiner fee for the MEI. I have zero multi time by the way. That would give me the minimum time needed which I believe is 30 hours in ME airplanes for MEI. Also, I already have my CFI for SEL so take that into account.

I would skip the multi private and go straight to the multicommercial. Why take 2 checkrides? In fact, if the MEI is your goal, I'd combine the multi commercial and MEI into one training program / checkride.

For a multicommercial, you need 10 hours in multiengine planes. The training for the combined program (multi commercial & MEI) is probably about that long, especially since you are adding an additional instructor rating.

For an MEI, you need a multi commercial. The only hour requirement for an MEI is whatever is required for the multi commercial. After you get the MEI, you need 5 hours in make & model to instruct in that aircraft.

If you go part 61, you're probably looking at $3000 to $3500 for a combined program including the checkrides. This figure may actually be on the high side if you're a halfway decent stick.

 

[mo7stanley]

I was planning on combining the private and commercial. But from what I have heard I need 15 hours for the commericial and another 15 for MEI. Also, for the school, if I remember correctly, they require an instructor be with you for insurance purposes at all times, or before you get your commercial/private at least. So that is where I am getting my numbers from. It isn't a 61 school either.

I forgot that I also have to pay tuition because it is with a school. But as I remember it it still ended up being the cheapest route around here. Also, I included that in the 5-6 figure.

If I go to this school to get the ratings, they only give the private and the commercial checkrides, which I think may be combined. The MEI requires me to go to an FAA guy.

But I will look into a 61 school and see what they have going. Thanks for the advice.

 

[HAL Pilot]

M7Stanley,

You are probably talking about a school required number of hours under their part 141 approval or by their insurance.

Part 61 is cheaper if you can find a good instructor. There is a reason the ATPs (http://www.atpflightschool.com/) me commercial course is 10 hours.....

Hell for $6k, go to an ATP training center and get both for $4600 and be done in 6 days. Use the other $1200 for food and hotel. With ATPs, you WILL pass unless you are really AFU. They know exactly what their DEs ask and how they conduct their checkrides. They include that in the training. No FAA guy either....

For the record, I don't endorse ATPs for everyone. They are a quick and dirty license mill. But for someone like M7Stanley who is already a CFI or someone that is a military pilot, they are one of the quickest and easier ways to get the blocked checked.