Crash renews calls for base to be vacated...

[incubus852]

Perhaps this should be merged with the main thread about the recent Hornet crash...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081214-9999-1n14miramar.html

It's been thought and said before, but IMHO, it isn't quite right when a military base is encroached upon by a civilian neighborhood and then forced out.

The recent mishap, regardless, is extremely unfortunate and sad. In light of this and probably past events, shouldn't there be some sort of buffer that prohibits a certain amount of buildup surrounding military bases, specifically approach patterns, etc?

 

[Schnugg]

This doesn't surprise me. We put a Tomcat into the landfill at NKX and the same argument made it's rounds...that was about 1994 IIRC.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Even if Miramar were to move, the city would be jumping over that airstrip to build a new international airport to relieve Lindburgh field.

You would replace the sound of F/A-18s with Boeing 737s

 

[Bevo16]

It's pretty funny that a city like San Diego (bankrupt, crawling with illegal immigrants, with an economy going straight to the shitter) would want to run off about 3/4 of a billion dollars in yearly income to their area.

Sure. Run the Marines off. Who is going to buy their crappy houses, eat their sushi, and buy $40 lap dances? Send them to El Centro, they will welcome them with open arms.

 

[USNMark]

"...having hundreds of helicopters and jets in the middle of an urban area is a recipe for discord and disaster,” said Sally Marks, who has lived in Scripps Ranch since 1978.

Ok... get rid of the new kids in the neighborhood: demo the urban area! :icon_boxi Sorry lady, the military's been there way longer than your 1978 anti-Miramar Campaign Post.

 

[snake020]

Nobody called for JFK airport to be closed when American flight 587 crashed and killed 5 on the ground.

Nobody calls for the Cubs to move whenever an out of the park homerun breaks their storm window.

And nobody in their right mind calls for a military base closure in the current economic state.

Miramar was there first; encroach at your own risk.

 

[Bevo16]

I just wish that they Marine Corps would not even placate these clowns with conversation. Why is the truth not good enough?

I suggest the following:

It was an accident, we are sorry, we were here first, we are not leaving.

Do they think that their neighborhoods are going to be safer when tens of thousands of Marines and well paid civilian support leave the area? Property values are already shit in that area. Create a few thousand more vacancies...the illegals and squatters will be just fine with that.

 

[CAMike]

$40 Lap dances? Man O Man have things changed in a few short 20 years. In P'Cola back in the day, Sugar Shacks were averaging $3 per dance. Torremolinos Spain was $4 and Black Angus(PR) was $4 plus- $10 an hour for the rooms upstairs. You youngsters register that in your situational awareness databases.

Your now $40 lap dances will soon be C notes. That is if our country is still financially intact, heck - by then most businesses will most likely be foreigned owned anyway. Soon dancers probably won't even take dollars. ...One song 2 Dinars / 10 Euro's sir, dollar no good here.

(Sorry for the threadjack- The word "lap dance" just sets me off.)

 

[insanebikerboy]

From what I've been told, pretty much all of the homeowners have to sign a paper acknowledging the noise when they buy a home in that area. Morons are arguing about something they've already rogered up to.

 

[Old R.O.]

Keeping the neighbors happy around Miramar has always been a problem.
Back in the late '70s, there was a Dr. Moss who lived somewhere near the departure end of RWY 24 and raised holy hell about the noise. The admiral (the legendary RADM Fellows) had enough, so he then decreed a "bird watch" where JOs from the squadrons at Miramar had to stand watches on a street corner and log each departure time and whether the aircraft were in "limits." I never stood one, but friends of mine did. A source of amusement was to read what was written in the log while standing watch.
One entry that I remember a friend relating was:
"U.S. Navy flight demonstration team... very loud... but VERY professional!"

It seems like some of the folks around there are spring-loaded to the righteous indignation position.
That, and the good-old-boy network getting the city planning commission to look the other way as things were built in the departure corridor where they weren't supposed to be.

 

[Catmando]

........ The admiral (the legendary RADM Fellows) had enough, so he then decreed a "bird watch" where JOs from the squadrons at Miramar had to stand watches on a street corner and log each departure time and whether the aircraft were in "limits." I never stood one, but friends of mine did. A source of amusement was to read what was written in the log while standing watch.
One entry that I remember a friend relating was:
"U.S. Navy flight demonstration team... very loud... but VERY professional!"
.......

The "good ol' days were good – no great! - But they unfortunately had some severe glitches – like "Field-Day-Fellows."

I stood a number of those infuriating "bird watches" (even as an 0-4, IIRC) off the departure-end of NKX 24R by I-805. I still tighten my jaws in disgust at that order and duty. :icon_rage But what was far, far worse was Field Day Fellows having my multiple-Mig-killer CO humiliated by having him standing gate-guard duty for a few days at Miramar, along with some other VF Skippers, :icon_rage only because one of his/their squadron officers was caught exiting the gate with – god forbid – his flight-suit on.

The 'Nav' is surely great; but it ain't absolutely perfect.

BT

On a separate note, I cannot count the times I returned safely to Miramar, single-engine in the F-14A – indeed often flying over my own family's occupied house, without concern, even though I had declared an "emergency" - after losing one of those wimpy and problematic TF-30 engines of the initial F-14s. Outside people just don't understand. But all that's for a later post.

 

[bunk22]

Every time we used to bounce at Miramar, the phone complaints would pour in to the poor duty office. Last time I recall, there were just over 60 compliants in 2 hours. Apparently the consistent droning of the props was too much for some folks. We used to try our best to bounce at El Centro but sometimes, we had to go to Miramar. We preferred Miramar due to its short distance, both drive and flight time.

 

[phrogpilot73]

When I was going through the FRS, they got noise complaints on the day of a group-wide safety standdown. I wish I was on duty that day... "I'm sorry, but clearly you must be mistaken - not a single aircraft from this air station is flying today. Perhaps you should try complaining to someone who has your same incredibly low level of intellect."

 

[incubus852]

after losing one of those wimpy and problematic TF-30 engines of the initial F-14s. Outside people just don't understand. But all that's for right now.

Corrected. Proceed please...

 

[FlyinRock]

I'd guess I am as old as nearly anyone on this forum and can recall the complaints of Miramar and El Toro back to the 50's. I can even recall when MCAF Mile Square was still active in Orange County. MCAS El Toro is long gone, MCAF LTA Irvine is long gone, Mile Square has been long gone and turned into a park long long ago. NAS Los Alamitos will turn into a bedroom community. Do you have any idea of the salivating that developers have done for that property?
Miramar, when closed, will never be used for commercial aviation ala Lindberg Field, no more than El Toro could replace SNA (Orange County airport). Brown field can't be used because of the hills to the east and the steep glide slope for an ILS. So, where in hell can they go? Who cares.
With time, even El Centro and Yuma will be bombarded even more with noise complaints and cries to close them. God forbid, the new administration won't listen to the noise sensitive and close out some of the most important and tactical bases in the USA. I suspect in the future, residents will complain about the noise of rocket engines for space shots and demand they be moved to someplace like remote Nevada, where the sheep herders already complain about noise interfering with lambing.....
I've had the dubious history of watching many airports closed in the past 50+ years for the most scurilious reasons. MOstly money and the potential income from the lucrative properties as seen or appreciated by developers and their respective political choices.
I weep at the seeming total disregard for the sacrifices of those who died to protect our country only to be ignored in the name of progress and $$$?
What upsets me is my young son will have to contend with such bullshit. I can only hope my feelings and integrity will be carried on by him. I hope and pray he will be one who understands how to outsmart the smarter mouse trap.
Semper Fi
Rocky