CV-67 Needs a Home.

[Birdog8585]

Minor threadjack, but I always found the attached file to be an "interesting listen" - the cockvit voice recording of full engagement HJ mentions above. You can literally hear the adrenaline creeping in as the engagement progresses; the backstory I heard was there may have been a little too much adrenaline on at least one participant's part, but I'd leave it to any of the Tomcat guys of that vintage to confirm.

Nice audio. Is there a HUD video of this - that would be a sweet one

 

[Flying Low]

Back in 96 HS-3 as part of CAG 8 get shifted to the JFK.

I was on the JFK from 94-98. I'm guessing your call sign is Lumpy? I got quite a bit of flight time with HS-3.

 

[Crazy8]

It would be nice to see her become a museum instead of rusting at a pier. The Forrestal and the Saratoga are languishing up in Newport. As beat up as they are, they still cut an imposing figure.

 

[Mumbles]

Actual HUD footage at about 3:25 or so.....

 

[Gatordev]

Actual HUD footage at about 3:25 or so.....

A question or two for the Tomcat/Phantom guys...obviously where OPSEC applies, just say so:

In the audio, I don't hear an encryption key between transmissions. Presumably that would take too long in a fast paced environment like ACM. Am I correct and this kind of real world stuff is done in the Red?

If so (or not, I guess), does the RIO's comms w/ the pilot also get sent out to the section? For example, it may be beneficial for (let's say) Dash 2 to know what lead's RIO is telling his pilot to do tactically rather than Lead's RIO to just say it over ICS. Or are comms just to clobbered to make that feasible?

Just curious how guys would keep the SA bubble big enough w/in the flight without making it pop.

 

[HeyJoe]

A question or two for the Tomcat/Phantom guys...obviously where OPSEC applies, just say so:

In the audio, I don't hear an encryption key between transmissions. Presumably that would take too long in a fast paced environment like ACM. Am I correct and this kind of real world stuff is done in the Red?

If so (or not, I guess), does the RIO's comms w/ the pilot also get sent out to the section? For example, it may be beneficial for (let's say) Dash 2 to know what lead's RIO is telling his pilot to do tactically rather than Lead's RIO to just say it over ICS. Or are comms just to clobbered to make that feasible?

Just curious how guys would keep the SA bubble big enough w/in the flight without making it pop.

Back then, the Tomcats were using ARC-182 Have Quick so the Anti-jam frequency hopping, although technically not secure, was only measure to forestall monitoring even though they could have gone green on their KY-58. Their recorded comms are a mix of ICS, Tactical Common between the two Gypsies engaged and the main Control Freq that they were talking to the E-2 on and the back-up Alert Tomcats that were closing fast (and also had the Floggers locked up).

Due to Comm discipline, the RIOs kept their directive comm on ICS only unless they are directing the section (pilots rarely talked as that is RIO's duty).

 

[Brett327]

A question or two for the Tomcat/Phantom guys...obviously where OPSEC applies, just say so:

In the audio, I don't hear an encryption key between transmissions. Presumably that would take too long in a fast paced environment like ACM. Am I correct and this kind of real world stuff is done in the Red?

If so (or not, I guess), does the RIO's comms w/ the pilot also get sent out to the section? For example, it may be beneficial for (let's say) Dash 2 to know what lead's RIO is telling his pilot to do tactically rather than Lead's RIO to just say it over ICS. Or are comms just to clobbered to make that feasible?

Just curious how guys would keep the SA bubble big enough w/in the flight without making it pop.

For the most part, all the comms WRT A/A and strike are done in the red. These days, some folks are going to be doing inter-flight comms on J-voice/MIDS, but the big picture stuff from the E-2 is in the clear. ICS is just that, so they would have to use their Tac freq on Aux to talk with the other jet (or J-voice, etc). The A/A comms thing can get pretty busy really fast, so brevity is huge at that point. Tactics have evolved significantly since the 80s, but there are some pretty standard TTPs and ROTs that are going to be followed given the air picture and expected threat, so your wing is pretty much going to know what to expect.

That's what I've gleaned over the years. I'm sure the fighter bubbas can expound.

Brett

 

[Gatordev]

Back then, the Tomcats were using ARC-182 Have Quick so the Anti-jam frequency hopping, although technically not secure, was only measure to forestall monitoring even though they could have gone green on their KY-58. Their recorded comms are a mix of ICS, Tactical Common between the two Gypsies engaged and the main Control Freq that they were talking to the E-2 on and the back-up Alert Tomcats that were closing fast (and also had the Floggers locked up).

Due to Comm discipline, the RIOs kept their directive comm on ICS only unless they are directing the section (pilots rarely talked as that is RIO's duty).

Wow, we're still flying with the same gear (sans Have Quick). I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

For the most part, all the comms WRT A/A and strike are done in the red. These days, some folks are going to be doing inter-flight comms on J-voice/MIDS, but the big picture stuff from the E-2 is in the clear. ICS is just that, so they would have to use their Tac freq on Aux to talk with the other jet (or J-voice, etc). The A/A comms thing can get pretty busy really fast, so brevity is huge at that point. Tactics have evolved significantly since the 80s, but there are some pretty standard TTPs and ROTs that are going to be followed given the air picture and expected threat, so your wing is pretty much going to know what to expect.

That's what I've gleaned over the years. I'm sure the fighter bubbas can expound.

Brett

Gotcha. What I was getting at was what HJ described as well. Sounds like Wing knows that you're digging/sorting/whatever so there's not a need to tell him when things are moving quick.

 

[Brett327]

Wow, we're still flying with the same gear (sans Have Quick). I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.



Gotcha. What I was getting at was what HJ described as well. Sounds like Wing knows that you're digging/sorting/whatever so there's not a need to tell him when things are moving quick.

Much of it is based on timelines, I.E. at X miles, do Y, if bandit does A, then lead does B and wing does C. Lots of directive brevity terms that get your point across with minimal radio use. Kind of oversimplified, but you get the idea.

Brett

 

[Gatordev]

Yup. Thanks.