...actually a better statement would be "until the preponderance of the shooting stopped," but generally true.
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Deployed and Current Aviator Thoughts?
- Thread starter bradler
- Start date
Read "War in a Time of Peace" by David Halberstam. It begins with G.W. Bush and Desert Storm, and ends with G.H.W. Bush, 9/11 and Afghanistan, but mostly it's about the Clinton Administration and the Balkans. Halberstam's real gift as an author was for putting the decisions and decision-makers in context of their times, plus, his stuff is very readable. "The Best and the Brightest" helped me understand a lot about how we got involved in Vietnam. "War in a Time of Peace" really gets into the personalities and backgrounds of all the main White House/Defense/State players during the '90s, and why decisions were made the way they were. Not just Clinton and the Balkans, but how the Defense Dept operated in the Clinton years, and why Rumsfeld came in with a clean-house-with-a-flamethrower mandate, how Colin Powell related to all three presidents, how the memories and expriences of Vietnam drove a lot of decisions that were made, that Slobodan Milosevic was certainly evil, but the Croats and the Bosnians weren't real cuddly, either. Good read.
Never met him, but have read the accounts of his 3 shootdowns. And I admit I'm really downplaying a nice achievement. I'd heard he was/is an excellent fighter pilot, nice guy, and professional. I certainly don't want to come across in a negative personal light. I toast to his success. My point was that the Serbian AF was just so unprepared and non-current: you can have the greatest hardware in the world, but you've got to train to a high standard to make it effective.
It would have been pretty neat for him to nab two more kills, and becoming an ace.
"A kill is a kill", I suppose. But there IS a difference in adversaries.
Didn't some USAF bubba become an "ace," or get pretty close at least, by spashing Serbian helos?
No, there was a F-16 driver who got three Serb Galebs (jet trainer/light attack aircraft) out of six in one engagement, he got late clearance to shoot them down or might have gotten more.
This is an excellent article about recent USAF kills. According to the article there are 4 guys who have gotten 3 kills a piece since Vietnam, including Colonel Cesar Rodriguez, who got two kills in the Gulf War and one in Kosovo.
http://www.afa.org/magazine/sept2004/0904aces.asp
Serb Galeb:
Jedj
Registered User
There was great episode of 'Dogfights' on the history channel about Rodriguez and his division on a DCA that ended up shooting one group and having to VID another that turned out to be 29's, thankfully the 29's out of Iraq didnt know how to use their systems any better than the Serbs apparently. Interesting story to say the least, I am sure most of you have seen it.
On the subject of the Galeb shootdowns, there were the three you mentioned, plus a 4th that was bagged by "Yogi" Allen, a friend of mine. Also in that 4-ship of Vipers was Scott O'Grady.
The jets shot down were probably the single-seat variant of the Galeb, but I don't know for sure.
The Soko (pictured above) is probably less capable than an armed T-2, but a fun jet to fly (so I'm told). They are unpressurized, too. I'm considering getting checked out in one in May, if the opportunity presents itself. There's a few for sale currently in the US. You can pick up a real nice one, in flying condition for under $40K. In fact, there's one for sale in Livermore, near me. Yes, there are folks out there selling them for $150K: they're smoking crack if they think they'll get that. Jet warbird prices have plummeted since oil went up.
The jets shot down were probably the single-seat variant of the Galeb, but I don't know for sure.
The Soko (pictured above) is probably less capable than an armed T-2, but a fun jet to fly (so I'm told). They are unpressurized, too. I'm considering getting checked out in one in May, if the opportunity presents itself. There's a few for sale currently in the US. You can pick up a real nice one, in flying condition for under $40K. In fact, there's one for sale in Livermore, near me. Yes, there are folks out there selling them for $150K: they're smoking crack if they think they'll get that. Jet warbird prices have plummeted since oil went up.
You bring up a good point, you can have all the toys in the world but if you don't know how to use them.......
I read was was supposedly a first hand account from a Serb Fulcrum pilot a few years ago where he described the flight he was shot down on. Pretty funny account, along with the description of how much of his equipment, like his radar, RHAW gear, etc was not working. Not a big surprise that he was shot down without even knowing anyone was shooting at him.
I was in Tuzla in Mar of 99. Right before we redeployed the Air war started in Kosovo. The day after we left a Mig 29? was shot down just over the boarder east of Eagle Base ( Tuzla). When I went back there in 02 I saw the tail section of what looked like a MIG 29 sitting in a valley east of Tuzla. It was actaully pancaked in some dudes backyard. I believe that is where it ended up. Does anybody know the story behind this?