Deputy Commandant Waiver?

[Hotdogs]

Also a fact. Everything the USMC says they want to do with Reapers is just a bad idea. The stuff the airplane is really good at doesn't really overlap with the 6 functions of Marine Aviation.

The Marine Corps does not need the FBI surveillance van in the sky that is the Reaper.

What do you think the Corps is going to do with Reapers? I can tell you right now it doesn’t involve flying into a WEZ for collections that is already covered by NTM. Where along the spectrum of conflict do you envision these being used properly? What is the threat environment most pertinent to island chains? Do you think the littoral environment is more or less difficult in targeting as an urban environment? The Corps is not going to run around and try to F2T2EA an adversary’s Navy capital ships by ourselves.

This conversation rapidly goes classified to get into specifics. Long story short: I think you’re envisioning an environment 180 out from when and where these things are going to be used.

Marines will definitely need those F-35's and Reapers if they have to campaign in the Paracel and Spratly islands. Especially, where defending ground units might be spread thinly across many islands.

Those O-5 commanders will need the responsiveness & force multiplier effects these systems provide. Yes, they're expensive, but the Commandant chose those systems over tanks and tube artillery.

None of what you typed (bolded) is ever going to happen.

 

[Swanee]

What do you think the Corps is going to do with Reapers? I can tell you right now it doesn’t involve flying into a WEZ for collections that is already covered by NTM. Where along the spectrum of conflict do you envision these being used properly? What is the threat environment most pertinent to island chains? Do you think the littoral environment is more or less difficult in targeting as an urban environment? The Corps is not going to run around and try to F2T2EA an adversary’s Navy capital ships by ourselves.

This conversation rapidly goes classified to get into specifics. Long story short: I think you’re envisioning an environment 180 out from when and where these things are going to be used.

I know the environment, and I know the USMC doesn't have the money, or the manpower, to get there- not with this airplane. 24/7 maritime surveillance of the littoral environment around all of the little island chains in direct support of, or as tasked by, a MEF Commander is a pipe dream.

What do you know about the Reaper and what it does?

 

[Hotdogs]

I know the environment, and I know the USMC doesn't have the money, or the manpower, to get there- not with this airplane. 24/7 maritime surveillance of the littoral environment around all of the little island chains in direct support of, or as tasked by, a MEF Commander is a pipe dream.

What do you know about the Reaper and what it does?

I’m not trying to play stump the chump with you. I just want to understand your perception of the environment. You should understand how the intelligence community develops a multiple source collections plan, and I would submit that the Reaper is more than capable of providing the requirements. It’s only one aspect of MDA the Corps needs. In terms of money and manpower - there is a reason it’s called Force Design 2030. If you think there is a better asset - then I’m all ears.

If you think we’re going to have drones up 24/7 to cover thousands of islands then we’re not even speaking on the same operational design. I’ve sat and planned in enough shitty countries in Africa to know what a Reaper does.

 

[Rtjenkins]

This must mainly be an aviation thing because I for the most part didn't see this in the surface fleet, I was just having lunch with a VFW friend who is also a retired CPO and asked him when I saw this and he said "god no" he was also surface.

I did work with a SCPO who was kind of an ass and he tried to get smart and do this with his DIVO and that lasted for all of a few days before the principal assistant pulled him into the office and I guess told him to knock it off as he was very subdued for weeks after that.

I’ve seen that happened before too, on CVNs. Some were warranted where my old Bosn “Ensign” would tell our Divo “Pilot” of how the the equipment should be managed. On the same side I’ve seen my Divo pull rank on senior chief on if they were going to send sailor up or not. I divo chose not to, even the LCPO at the time wanted make an example. For the most part, officer generally stay out of the way unless it’s dealing with admin or putting something out to the division. Bosn and lcpo handle the operations side . It’s roughly over 250 people in division

 

[Swanee]

I’m not trying to play stump the chump with you. I just want to understand your perception of the environment. You should understand how the intelligence community develops a multiple source collections plan, and I would submit that the Reaper is more than capable of providing the requirements. It’s only one aspect of MDA the Corps needs. In terms of money and manpower - there is a reason it’s called Force Design 2030. If you think there is a better asset - then I’m all ears.

If you think we’re going to have drones up 24/7 to cover thousands of islands then we’re not even speaking on the same operational design. I’ve sat and planned in enough shitty countries in Africa to know what a Reaper does.

Roger.

So a Cobra guy knows more about Reapering than a Reaper guy because the Cobra guy did a joint tour in an AOR that had Reapers flying in it.

I'll take things that are wrong with Marine Aviation for 2000, Alex.

 

[Hotdogs]

Roger.

So a Cobra guy knows more about Reapering than a Reaper guy because the Cobra guy did a joint tour in an AOR that had Reapers flying in it.

I'll take things that are wrong with Marine Aviation for 2000, Alex.

Don’t be pedantic. Never did I once say I knew more than you about your platform, but your capabilities aren’t exactly hard to understand or employ - Neither are mine for that matter. There are a combination of sensors and collections vehicles that are going to be used. That’s not an affront to your expertise brother.

I’d take a wild guess you probably are uninformed in how the Corps plans (both ground and air) on operating in that environment. Especially given your statements about “24/7 maritime surveillance around thousands of islands.” To be honest there are even Marines (including myself at times) who are still wrapping their mind around some of it. However I can guarantee that it is not the vast swath of terrain in your presumptive statement. Don’t let a CFACC concept of employment for MQ-9s in the maritime environment convolute your impressions of Marine operating concepts. Nor let your previous VMU experience discount how much things have changed in the last 2-3 years.

Lastly, You have to put many of things on a map and scale it over time to fully capture the rationale. The geopolitical environment isn’t going to go from zero to major combat operations quickly. Like I said, if you think another platform is better suited then feel free to discuss it.

 

[Randy Daytona]

I know the environment, and I know the USMC doesn't have the money, or the manpower, to get there- not with this airplane. 24/7 maritime surveillance of the littoral environment around all of the little island chains in direct support of, or as tasked by, a MEF Commander is a pipe dream.

What do you know about the Reaper and what it does?

I’m not trying to play stump the chump with you. I just want to understand your perception of the environment. You should understand how the intelligence community develops a multiple source collections plan, and I would submit that the Reaper is more than capable of providing the requirements. It’s only one aspect of MDA the Corps needs. In terms of money and manpower - there is a reason it’s called Force Design 2030. If you think there is a better asset - then I’m all ears.

If you think we’re going to have drones up 24/7 to cover thousands of islands then we’re not even speaking on the same operational design. I’ve sat and planned in enough shitty countries in Africa to know what a Reaper does.

Any thoughts on this and how it (if ? ) will fit into the Marine Corps new structures?

New Kit Will Allow MQ-9 Reaper To Fly From Navy Flattops

Large drones have the potential to provide persistent eyes in the sky for Navy ships plying contested waters.

www.thedrive.com

New Kit Will Allow MQ-9 Reaper To Fly From Navy Flattops​

A STOL MQ-9 has the potential to provide persistent eyes in the sky for big deck amphibious assault ships, carriers, and Marines operating from austere locations.​

 

[Swanee]

Any thoughts on this and how it (if ? ) will fit into the Marine Corps new structures?

New Kit Will Allow MQ-9 Reaper To Fly From Navy Flattops

Large drones have the potential to provide persistent eyes in the sky for Navy ships plying contested waters.

www.thedrive.com

New Kit Will Allow MQ-9 Reaper To Fly From Navy Flattops​

A STOL MQ-9 has the potential to provide persistent eyes in the sky for big deck amphibious assault ships, carriers, and Marines operating from austere locations.​

LOS ops are still limited and present a force protection problem. Bandwidth from the boat is also limited and pretty non standard across the fleet of ships- the VMU dets on the LPDs learned that no two boats are the same. MCE from CONUS will still need to happen, and it all depends on whether the USMC can afford the global network infrastructure.

And then there is the trouble of landing a FW airplane on a straight deck carrier.

I think this is more of a response to Dog Davis 7 years ago saying that everything the USMC buys has to take off and land from a boat. (The reason we bought the RQ-21, which was a terrible decision)

It's a cool concept if you're going to do the Doolittle Raid thing. But again, it's the coming back home to the boat that history has told us is the trouble.

 

[Griz882]

A lot of good points made here. I admit I am along the lower edge of the knowledge curve when it comes to UAV operations but I always lane to the side of argument that once a technology is created it grows at an exponentially greater rate toward improvement. Actually landing a UAV on a straight deck, I imagine, is not a great challenge in today’s tech environment but signal standardization (bandwidth) across decks might be (larger design issue). I will say that looking back over time it has been remarkable to see the shift from top tactical aircraft of my teenage years (F-4, A-4, A-6) shift over time to today’s rapidly advancing technologies.