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Did anyone here ever fly the ES-3A Shadow?
- Thread starter AircraftGeek513
- Start date
AIRMMCPORET
Plan “A” Retired
Here you go.
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You got me! You got me good.
Conversely, the amount of clout chasing she does is also ludicrously high. I don't think the vitriol is deserved, but maybe a little bit of the mocking is. Also shoot most, not all, pilot influencers into the sun.
If you're talking "carrier aviation", you'll have to ask someone that flew the Prowler, A-4 or T-2.
As far as I know, everything fixed wing is now a turbofan... (not counting the E-2/C-2, obviously).
I had to explain to a former AF jet mech that most airplanes nowadays have turbofan engines. He argued only airliners had turbofans distinguished by the big fan up front….🙃🙄😂
Not an ES-3 guy but a former EP-3 guy, the ES-3's were a bit like our little sibling and there was a lot of cross-politization between the platforms, though likely not enough. The ES-3's were still flying and deploying when I first got to the squadron and and I worked with them a few times. They were retired about halfway through my tour and we ended up getting quite a few of the former ES-3 guys in my squadron, pilots and FO's both.
It wasn't shitty, it just wasn't utilized very well by the air wings or supported well by big Navy. They had the same automated system that we did on the EP-3 but they actually maintained theirs and did pretty well with it, but it was old by the time it was installed on the ES-3 and wasn't being maintained as a program well. When I did work with them they were sharp enough and did much better than anyone else other than the us and the RC-135 guys, they were just criminally underutilized by the air wings who usually didn't care or bother to learn about their capabilities. They were even using them primarily as tankers on a few air wings.
Why did they get retired so quickly? I think for a few reasons, 1- The Air Wings didn't have an organic SIGINT platform for ~8 years IIRC, from the last time the EA-3's deployed on a carrier in 1987 to I think about 1995 when the ES-3's started and whatever institutional knowledge of the advantages of having an organic SIGINT platform were forgotten, 2 - Lack of training, the aircrew went through the S-3 RAG then got a little SIGINT training on the side but didn't have an opportunity to really learn the discipline more thoroughly, that was directly related to 3- They didn't buy enough aircraft, they're were only 16 and they were constantly deployed and rarely available for training or for exercises at Fallon/Nellis, 4 - Lack of investment, they bought them then didn't do much to update them after that leaving them to quickly become obsolete and 5 - Air Wings didn't seem to know what to do with them or care to learn in most cases.
The biggest reason I think they went away though so quickly though is there was and still is a lack of appreciation in Naval Aviation for what tactical SIGINT can bring to the 'fight'. I worked with several air wings on deployments and they were consistently surprised at some of the things we could do, which were frankly not all that unique or special (though sometimes it was) when it came to SIGINT but no one else was able to do it by that time (Navy-wise) and it was something not utilized that often air wings except in some standard areas and operations, but those kinds of operations were the exception to the rule by the time I was flying. Given the right operators and equipment there can be a wealth of info that could be made available to folks in a rapid manner that isn't today, but Big Navy has decided to invest their money elsewhere.
Her husband was an instructor of mine at EW school, he was a character himself and loved the fact his wife had posed. I also think she had a twin? Didn't get to meet her in person but...
Yeah, pretty much from what I gathered from folks who knew them.
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The bat/raven have been used as symbols for EW from the very beginning, it won't be going away anytime soon though the Navy ones likely will at least officially.
The raven (or crow) is the symbol for the EW association. I did some minor history work for them many moons ago.
Mission & History
The Association of Old Crows (AOC) is a professional non-profit association that educates, connects, and advocates on behalf of its members and stakeholders across the global electromagnetic warfare…
crows.org
Guess we’ll find out in a few months or years how well that VQ sundown is being appreciated…
AOC has been trying to find their next generation for a while. They gave every VMU guy a free membership for a couple of years.The raven (or crow) is the symbol for the EW association. I did some minor history work for them many moons ago.
Mission & History
The Association of Old Crows (AOC) is a professional non-profit association that educates, connects, and advocates on behalf of its members and stakeholders across the global electromagnetic warfare…
It's such a niche genre, I'm not sure how well it caught on.