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Do Carrier COs and XOs Fly?

Hello Gents,

Another question about CCSG/Boat CO/CAG relationships: if CCSG is 1110 and has enormous CRUDES background, who is usually his principal advisor in aviation matters? One of these two O-6s or some another 1310/1320 O-5/6 from CSG staff? Would it be some proxy struggle/turf battles around? From the standpoint of finding some common language I suspect it rather would be Boat CO as he too is a shipdriver to a degree, at least on this tour. But this is just my logical supposition and nothing more. And again - is it possible in USN that CCSG admiral is 1120 man?

Thanks a lot
 
Max the Mad Russian said:
Hello Gents,

Another question about CCSG/Boat CO/CAG relationships: if CCSG is 1110 and has enormous CRUDES background, who is usually his principal advisor in aviation matters? One of these two O-6s or some another 1310/1320 O-5/6 from CSG staff? Would it be some proxy struggle/turf battles around? From the standpoint of finding some common language I suspect it rather would be Boat CO as he too is a shipdriver to a degree, at least on this tour. But this is just my logical supposition and nothing more. And again - is it possible in USN that CCSG admiral is 1120 man?

Thanks a lot
Click to expand...
It depends on what you mean by "aviation" - air warfare commander and strike warfare commander are two different people, and the strike group commander leans on them both.

The carrier CO is nominally a different warfare commander, but in my experience watching things happen, is mostly concerned with the carrier being where it needs to be with the capabilities that it needs to have at the time expected, and that flight deck/refueling/restricted maneuvering operations are conducted safely.

There are *always* proxy struggles and turf battles.

I'm sure different CVN COs run things differently.
 
squorch2 said:
It depends on what you mean by "aviation" - air warfare commander and strike warfare commander are two different people, and the strike group commander leans on them both.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Is the Air Warfare Commander another 1110 O-6 who commands his own Tico-class hull, or is s/he 1310/1320 person embarked on a carrier? Well, I meant a person who is NA/NFO and proficient in the CVW force's employment and everyday running. Suppose s/he is either CAG or carrier CO, or CSG staff officer, 1310/1320 too.

Look, in the whole world outside USN (and Russia as fucking funny and curious part of it), the CCSG admiral is 99% 1110 (or alike in national parlances), and the matter of choice of the proper advisor to him (here "her" isn't worth to mention as it just doesn't happen), presenting the aviation land as a whole, is of extreme importance. Anyway, if the CCSG is not aviator, there should be one aviation person to whom he trusts (in reality) mostly. Who is this person usually in USN if the CCSG is 1110 with no previous carrier tour (as nuke, for example) or even 1120, who has never touched a carrier's deck with his feet before? Boat CO?

And yes, carrier leadership is akin to any big business, or maybe even more intricate. No wonder that struggles/battles are blossoming there...
 
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squorch2 said:
good wrap-up of Composite Warfare Commmander
Click to expand...

Look, there are:


3. Air Warfare Commander (AW)

The commanding officer of the cruiser in the battlegroup is often assigned as AW


and then


5. Strike Warfare Commander (AP)

In single CVBG operations the carrier air wing commander (CAG) is normally assigned as the air warfare commander.

Should there be "strike" instead of "air" here?

I'm OK with it as Russian Navy will never reach the same complexity of a command-and-control culture and standard American approach to fix it all (assign those you have to all duties you have to cover, and compulsory duplicate them, just in case) is on a right track, as usually.

My question was slightly more general, as 1310 CCSG differs from 1110 CCSG significantly, and no cadre or organizational measures can iron it out to nil. Generally, when this SWO admiral in his cabin on a carrier, sippin' a cup of coffee, invites someone to unformally speak about some intricate aviation matters - for example, how to evaluate the nowadays SOPs of a given CVW mission tanking which doesn't inevitably involve that fucking USAF - then who usually would be that person? Or maybe no 1110 admiral assigned CCSG will dig so deeply and narrowly, leaving it all to a professional subordinates?
 
Max the Mad Russian said:
Look, there are:


3. Air Warfare Commander (AW)

The commanding officer of the cruiser in the battlegroup is often assigned as AW


and then


5. Strike Warfare Commander (AP)

In single CVBG operations the carrier air wing commander (CAG) is normally assigned as the air warfare commander.

Should there be "strike" instead of "air" here?

I'm OK with it as Russian Navy will never reach the same complexity of a command-and-control culture and standard American approach to fix it all (assign those you have to all duties you have to cover, and compulsory duplicate them, just in case) is on a right track, as usually.

My question was slightly more general, as 1310 CCSG differs from 1110 CCSG significantly, and no cadre or organizational measures can iron it out to nil. Generally, when this SWO admiral in his cabin on a carrier, sippin' a cup of coffee, invites someone to unformally speak about some intricate aviation matters - for example, how to evaluate the nowadays SOPs of a given CVW mission tanking which doesn't inevitably involve that fucking USAF - then who usually would be that person? Or maybe no 1110 admiral assigned CCSG will dig so deeply and narrowly, leaving it all to a professional subordinates?
Click to expand...
What do you think CAG's role is? He's the O6 with all the aviation experience. You're overthinking this.
 
Thank you Brett

How can I know it all? I'm just former (stupid and adversary :cool:) SWO from the navy which still calls its only aircraft carrier a cruiser... That is why I'm asking. Russian Navy sticks with the British carrier leadership approach, when the principal advisor to a carrier CO (himself a surface warfare officer usually) is so-called Commander, Air (nickname "Wings") - an aviator and officer in ship's company, to whom CO of every embarked squadron reports. Russian Navy views it all in the same way. Thereby, no CAG equivalent exists here...
 
Oh by the way,

Hope this isn't a "sensitive". What was the reason back in 1983 to separate the command chain of a CAG from the Boat CO's one and made them both equal in relation to CCBG? Any links to a Lebanon or Strike U, the same year?
 
Max the Mad Russian said:
Oh by the way,

Hope this isn't a "sensitive". What was the reason back in 1983 to separate the command chain of a CAG from the Boat CO's one and made them both equal in relation to CCBG? Any links to a Lebanon or Strike U, the same year?
Click to expand...
According to The Twilight War: The Secret History of America's Thirty-Year Conflict with Iran by David Crist (2012), Secretary John Lehman directed the Super-CAG change, as well as other changes, after the 1983 Lebanon Air Strike debacle. Elevating CAG to Warfare Commander level and making him/her responsible for all of Strike Warfare ensuring appropriate leadership in the air.
 
ea6bflyr said:
According to The Twilight War: The Secret History of America's Thirty-Year Conflict with Iran by David Crist (2012), Secretary John Lehman directed the Super-CAG change, as well as other changes, after the 1983 Lebanon Air Strike debacle. Elevating CAG to Warfare Commander level and making him/her responsible for all of Strike Warfare ensuring appropriate leadership in the air.
Click to expand...


Thanks a lot! What do you think about the Lehman (as A-6 B/N, if Wiki is correct) personal background's influence on those decisions? A year before these innovations he managed to kill the career of an unsinkable ADM Rickover, by the way. And Hyman himself had then accused Lehman as the man who "knows nothing about how the Navy works". It seems that NFO in the States might be a person of awful devastating force:D
 
Max the Mad Russian said:
Thanks a lot! What do you think about the Lehman (as A-6 B/N, if Wiki is correct) personal background's influence on those decisions? A year before these innovations he managed to kill the career of an unsinkable ADM Rickover, by the way. And Hyman himself had then accused Lehman as the man who "knows nothing about how the Navy works". It seems that NFO in the States might be a person of awful devastating force:D
Click to expand...

Lehman was a 'B/N' but I'm not sure if you could say he was an NFO, he never went through flight school. I'm not sure how he was able to swing it but at least one former member here said he knew what he was doing when he flew with him.
 
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