E-2/C-2 pipeline

[scoober78]

I too have heard this news. Curious myself when it will go into effect...

I made the decision that I want to go carrier aviation out of primary if at all possible...I have a definite first and second choice but....

The only downside I see is the continued uncertainty about your future.

Bunk...maybe you can address this. This plan is going to cost CNATRA some extra dollars. For a normal E2/C2 track guy at TAW-4, he or she would hit VT-31 (no move req'd) and then off to K-Rock. In this new system though, we are talking about at least one extra move entitlement. Considering the extra cost, why the change? Again, I don't have a problem with it, but why?

 

[bunk22]

Bunk...maybe you can address this. This plan is going to cost CNATRA some extra dollars. For a normal E2/C2 track guy at TAW-4, he or she would hit VT-31 (no move req'd) and then off to K-Rock. In this new system though, we are talking about at least one extra move entitlement. Considering the extra cost, why the change? Again, I don't have a problem with it, but why?

I don't know the answer to this. My thought is it might be a bit extra money if guys select T-45's then go through the entire strike syllabus then select at the end and those E2/C2 types now go through the T-44 syllabus. The difference now is the flights that the prop guys normally don't go through...ACM, air-to-ground, etc. So I don't know the increased costs. I do think that if it takes the same score to get strike or E2/C2 out of primary, why not let those folks all go to advanced then seperate those with the strike skills and those without.

 

[Gators04]

What's the exact date associated with this? Selecting in about 10 days...

-jai5w4

The way it was explained to me was the E-2/C-2 manning was already set for FY 07 via the old selection routes. The new selection method would go into effect for FY 08 manning, with the cut happening at the end of Phase I in advanced.

 

[loadtoad]

I don't know the answer to this. My thought is it might be a bit extra money if guys select T-45's then go through the entire strike syllabus then select at the end and those E2/C2 types now go through the T-44 syllabus. The difference now is the flights that the prop guys normally don't go through...ACM, air-to-ground, etc. So I don't know the increased costs. I do think that if it takes the same score to get strike or E2/C2 out of primary, why not let those folks all go to advanced then seperate those with the strike skills and those without.

That does seem like a lot of extra money. On top of that wouldn't it add extra flight hours on the T-45 for basically no reason?

Above my pay grade thats for sure!



Congrats on selecting E2/C2!

 

[Gators04]

That does seem like a lot of extra money. On top of that wouldn't it add extra flight hours on the T-45 for basically no reason?

Above my pay grade thats for sure!



Congrats on selecting E2/C2!

Like I said, they wouldn't do the entire strike syllabus ... just Phase I followed by CQ. Think the current progression in reverse.

 

[SlickAg]

You will probably be one of the last studs to select E2/C2 out of primary. Word on the street is that very soon, i.e, next month, studs will be selected for tailhook out of primary with the Jets or E2/C2 cut being made in the T-45 syllabus. Over to you on how you think you would have liked being selected that way but seeing as how you had E2/C2 before jets, I'm guessing you're pretty happy with how it turned out.

I heard today from an O-5 on the TW-4 staff that the new system would be going into effect starting in June. I'd only heard rumors in the squadron and figured it was a while away. He made the same remark about my timing, I'm glad I have my spot locked up. Thanks for the gouge.

 

[bunk22]

That does seem like a lot of extra money. On top of that wouldn't it add extra flight hours on the T-45 for basically no reason?

Above my pay grade thats for sure!



Congrats on selecting E2/C2!

Wouldn't necessarily be extra flight hours for no reason if the students pilots are competing for slots, be it strike or E2/C2. Those with the better grades I assume would go strike.

 

[kray1395]

I'm not sure that money has much to do with the decision to change to the new method. From the higher ups here, the decision is more about reestablishing the sense of competition amongst the students. Back when you could go S-3's, E-A6B's, F-14's, or F/A-18's out of advanced, the competition amongst students was evident. Now almost everyone gets selected for Hornets, with a couple here and there getting Prowlers. If you are the worst in your class, but still have the NSS, you're going Hornets. That created a little bit of a lazy attitude with some students, not all though.

Now, with the new system, you may have to actually get a little more serious about doing well to get what you want. The same might be true for those wanting E2/C2 as well. I feel that there are going to end up being more students that will want to go E2/C2. Let's face it, how much did you learn about the community while in Primary? I would venture to say, like me, not a whole lot. You will learn a lot more about it when you get to Goshawk land. I don't think the E-2 or C-2 pilots that are here as instructors are going to stand by and let the community be for only those that couldn't make the jet cut. They are going to do a great job educating the students on the community and I think many will see that there are quite a few positives to being a Hawkeye guy or a COD guy over strike.

It's going to be interesting to see the process at work when it's started. Although I can see one or two potential negatives to the new system, I think there will be more positives and it should work out better. The only suggestion that I would have is that for those that are selected to E2/C2, before they report to VT-31 for the multi training, they should be winged at either TW-1 or TW-2. Anyone who can land a T-45 on a ship and trap 10 times needs wings. I hope they end up doing it that way.

 

[loadtoad]

That acually makes a lot of sense to me... Thanks

 

[bunk22]

It's going to be interesting to see the process at work when it's started. Although I can see one or two potential negatives to the new system, I think there will be more positives and it should work out better. The only suggestion that I would have is that for those that are selected to E2/C2, before they report to VT-31 for the multi training, they should be winged at either TW-1 or TW-2. Anyone who can land a T-45 on a ship and trap 10 times needs wings. I hope they end up doing it that way.

It used to be E2/C2 selects would go through VT-4 then on to VT-31 as their final phase of training. They would get winged in Corpus. From what I heard, the negative to this is obviously the extra time between CQ, another phase of training then going to the FRS. Maybe a little cockiness on the students part, afterall, they are now talihookers who have really completed the hard part of training.

 

[ATLien]

Or why not just skip VT-31 anyway after the E2\C2 studs CQ? They've already done their instrument training in the T-45. Don't say "to learn how to fly multi-engine." Jet guys don't fly anything but single-engines until the FRS.

 

[MasterBates]

Tad bit of a difference in Assymetic Thrust betwen a EA6B or -18 than an E2 or C2..

 

[bunk22]

I personally think that T-44's probably aren't needed to fly E2/C2's. I can't really say that my time in T-44's helped at all or that I remembered anything from my VT-31 days. You'll learn everything you need to know at the FRS. The T-44 or C-12 are so different than the E2/C2 (flying characteristics) that I don't think it matters. Might be worth it for the Navy to look into it, maybe it saves some time and money in training. Send a group of guys through, with and without T-44 training and compare their performance at the end of the FRS. No difference, change it.

 

[heynowlookout]

Is Vmc(air)/(ground) even possible in an -18 or Prowler? Not sarcastic, I honestly don't know.

 

[MasterBates]

I was told that was debated Bunky, but VAW-120 wanted the studs to come with Multi-Time and preferabbly be the last stop before the RAG..

They looked at just giving me Krock and then on to -120, but CNATRA deemed I "need" the ME time.