E-6 going away

[Flash]

...Short of someone who's done an exchange tour with the Navy or Marines, I believe I've got a way better-than-average understanding of Navy/Marine aviation culture for an AF Driver. ...As a non-Navy/Marine guy who looks at y'all with AF spectacles, just realize that I see stuff that makes me chuckle too. And the U-2 "ready room" is a hilarious place to air these things. Tomorrow, for example, I expect there will be the following Navy/Marine backgrounds in there for end-of-the-week celebrations: S-3, EA-6B, Harrier, P-3, and T-45. We will poke each other in the eye and have a great time doing it.

But only if I could get rid of that awful ejection seat harness. Yes, that would be a deal-breaker.

I would caveat most of what you say by pointing out you were long in a very small and very unique part of the USAF that is unlike any other, every U-2 driver I've worked with over the past few years has been awesome but not one was very USAF-like in comparison to their peers.

Having gone through USAF training, been in a 'joint' squadron and working with them to this day (our 'SEL' MSgt sits facing me now) I can confidently say I've rarely regretted choosing the Navy over the USAF. And the harness, never bothered me.

P.S. I hope you rock that scarf and those ugly green flight boots while trying to avoid saying words like head and box this afternoon.

 

[ChuckMK23]

I would caveat most of what you say by pointing out you were long in a very small and very unique part of the USAF that is unlike any other, every U-2 driver I've worked with over the past few years has been awesome but not one was very USAF-like in comparison to their peers.

Having gone through USAF training, been in a 'joint' squadron and working with them to this day (our 'SEL' MSgt sits facing me now) I can confidently say I've rarely regretted choosing the Navy over the USAF. And the harness, never bothered me.

P.S. I hope you rock that scarf and those ugly green flight boots while trying to avoid saying words like head and box this afternoon.

Step. ?

 

[SynixMan]

The Wedgetail as it is simply isn't very good. I was cube-neighbors with a guy who spent a few years as an NGC radar SME on the program. The weapon system never really lived up to specs, but by the time that became apparent the Aussies were in too deep to cancel it, so they just pushed through to fielding it. It was one of the first big Australian domestically driven weapon procurement programs (as opposed to straight FMS purchase) and cancelling it would have been very embarrassing for the ADF. There aren't any other alternatives out there that can meet the big-scale battle manager platform the AF wants, though, so sounds like they're going with the E-7 and hoping to tweak it up to standards.

I think this is the biggest thing. Upgrading the radar suite is probably easier than doing anything "from scratch" to replace the E-3. The KC-46 debacle probably has big USAF gun shy on a clean sheet design. This will also make an easy case for replacement of the NATO birds (side note, a classmate of mine in the airlines flew NATO AWACS and what a great scam).

 

[Duc'-guy25]

I don't necessarily expect an answer here, but would space-based signals still make it to the intended target? My (perhaps mis-) understanding is that part of why the system works the way it does is because it can transmit the signal a long distance. Even if you're hovering over the Pacific in space, that's still one hell of a line of sight with no ionoshpere to help out.

Things I don't need to know, no doubt, but would still be interesting to learn about.

It’s not the distance, it’s the depth. An antenna long enough for extremely low frequencies would be difficult to get into space (I think). The concern is communicating with submerged subs (you can generally solve the distance problem the ionosphere). ELF has excellent propagation though water, hence the need for TACAMO and previous ground based sites.

 

[Brett327]

An antenna long enough for extremely low frequencies would be difficult to get into space (I think).

Why? I imagine you can reel out a long dipole in orbit too.

 

[nittany03]

It’s not the distance, it’s the depth. An antenna long enough for extremely low frequencies would be difficult to get into space (I think).

I don't have trouble imagining a satellite with a big-ass spool. Now whether or not you can reel or unreel it in zero-G . . . that would be a question for an engineer.

 

[wink]

I don't have trouble imagining a satellite with a big-ass spool. Now whether or not you can reel or unreel it in zero-G . . . that would be a question for an engineer.

I imagine it looking like my bait casting fishing reel.

 

[taxi1]

Why? I imagine you can reel out a long dipole in orbit too.

You actually want some drag to keep that thing from turning into @wink 's fishing reel. An awful lot of failures doing tethers in space.

 

[Brett327]

You actually want some drag to keep that thing from turning into @wink 's fishing reel. An awful lot of failures doing tethers in space.

...along with some interesting successes. Gravity can be your source of drag. I'm sure they can figure it out.

 

[Gatordev]

It’s not the distance, it’s the depth. An antenna long enough for extremely low frequencies would be difficult to get into space (I think). The concern is communicating with submerged subs (you can generally solve the distance problem the ionosphere). ELF has excellent propagation though water, hence the need for TACAMO and previous ground based sites.

Thank you for that. That's exactly what was running through my head, I just wasn't sure I should post it.

I would guess propagation loss for HF and below is worse outside the protection of the poles, but since that's a battle even in the atmosphere, it's probably not as big a deal.

 

[taxi1]

I'm sure they can figure it out.

It's not for a lack of trying. Bunch of reasons to have long tethers in space for sure.

OK, I went down the rathole. Page 148 of this doc. Some crazy physics for how a transmitter would work.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiMvuqQ1Or9AhWJlIkEHcUdADYQFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fntrs.nasa.gov%2Fapi%2Fcitations%2F19980018321%2Fdownloads%2F19980018321.pdf%3Fattachment%3Dtrue&usg=AOvVaw31vPSbd2ChgJKbNnUHLGFf

 

[Flash]

It’s not the distance, it’s the depth. An antenna long enough for extremely low frequencies would be difficult to get into space (I think). The concern is communicating with submerged subs (you can generally solve the distance problem the ionosphere). ELF has excellent propagation though water, hence the need for TACAMO and previous ground based sites.

Why? I imagine you can reel out a long dipole in orbit too.

Given today's threat environment I would be wary of relying on a space-based asset for that kind of critical communications link for nuclear C2. One or two planes on alert or in the air would likely be more reliable and survivable for the time needed to accomplish the mission.

 

[SynixMan]

Color me skeptical we need a niche community like VQ(T) in the Navy with all the associated career track costs. Sort of like VXE-6, feels like something that could be folded into the ANG. But I'm mildly ignorant of what they do beyond stream an antenna and pass signals.

 

[nittany03]

Color me skeptical we need a niche community like VQ(T) in the Navy with all the associated career track costs. Sort of like VXE-6, feels like something that could be folded into the ANG. But I'm mildly ignorant of what they do beyond stream an antenna and pass signals.

I think part of it has to do with the idea that Navy subs are getting their tasking via Navy assets. Now whether or not that’s a luxury or a necessity in this joint era is a separate question.

 

[taxi1]

Color me skeptical we need a niche community like VQ(T) in the Navy with all the associated career track costs. Sort of like VXE-6, feels like something that could be folded into the ANG. But I'm mildly ignorant of what they do beyond stream an antenna and pass signals.

I seriously don't think the Navy should make a decision on the platform based on career track costs for a niche community.

In fact, I like the idea of niche communities. Kind of like U2s in the USAF.

Also, somebody has to man those catapults on disassociated sea tours.