Energy Discussion

[ABMD]

In other news, more evidence that people’s personal energy choices are no longer “suggested best practice” but rather compulsory and dictated for you by others:

Colorado Utility Took Control Of Thousands Of People’s Home Thermostats

Xcel Energy prevented thousands of customers in Colorado from changing the temperature in their homes for hours on Tuesday due to an

dailycaller.com

As someone in this industry, this is called Demand Response and it isn't dedicated to the residential customer, this program is available (where available) to all customers (of a utility or a retail energy provider). After a smart meter is installed, the customer has a choice to enter the DR program, which allows the utility or supplier to cycle their AC unit, in some cases up to 100% OFF. By allowing the utility this control, the customer gets a small discount on their bill. Customers still have a choice, and no one is doing this without the customers consent.

 

[ABMD]

As some in this industry, this is called Demand Response and it isn't dedicated to the residential customer, this program is available (where available) to all customers (of a utility or a retail energy provider). After a smart meter is installed, the customer has a choice to enter the DR program, which allows the utility or supplier to cycle their AC unit, in some cases up to 100% OFF. By allowing the utility this contract, the customer gets a small discount on their bill. Customers still have a choice, and no one is doing this without the customers consent.

There are also programs that allow utilities to tell large C&I customers to stop, 100%, from using natural gas and we require them to switch to an alternate fuel. Failure to do so results in significant penalties for that customer. Once again, this is a special rate class of customers who get their own rate for the utility to have the option to completely shut them off of their gas supply. The reason for this is to protect the integrity of the entire system on high-demand days (Winter).

 

[ABMD]

Looks like Europe has been able to avoid a winter gas crunch...temporarily, thanks to US LNG.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Companies Are Buying Large Numbers of Carbon Offsets That Don’t Cut Emissions​

With the boom in renewable energy, many of the credits that trade hands merely represent a transfer of money from one profitable enterprise to another, critics say​

Companies Are Buying Large Numbers of Carbon Offsets That Don’t Cut Emissions

With the boom in renewable energy, many of the credits that trade hands merely represent a transfer of money from one profitable enterprise to another, critics say.

www.wsj.com

the Journal’s analysis shows—meaning that big chunks of the wind industry in China were at least partially funded by Western companies seeking offsets.

But China has struggled to use its wind power,which means in practice the credits did little to offset carbon emissions. Some turbines weren’t connected to the power grid and others couldn’t sell electricity as grid operators rejected wind energy in favor of traditional fossil-fuel sources

 

[Randy Daytona]

Solar panels can help out, and California has mandated new homes and buildings incorporate them. As for their feasibility, a coworker had solar panels installed along with a Powerwall and got a Model 3 Tesla as well. They get very little electricity from the grid and have had no issues in the two years they have had everything done.



Domestic natural gas production and distribution is plenty vulnerable enough, and that is if producers choose to keep 'producing' it. It also happens to be a finite resource. As for coal, that is rapidly going the way of the dodo domestically and in most of the first world for a variety of good reasons.



As is very often the case with oil and gas.



Backup power doesn't have to be gas, storage can help and many plants already exist.



You don't need a traditional power plant for solar panels or wind turbines and can put them where power plants can't go, like on top of a house or in the water.



Solar and wind are newer energy generation technologies that are rapidly maturing and evolving, I would be surprised if the upfront costs remain as high as they are now in the next 20 to 30 years. It would also be interesting to see the time frame used for many of those 'studies' or comparisons. And interest rates are going to affect everyone.

I do think renewables can contribute, but you can’t run a modern society exclusively off of wind and solar as Germany is finding out. The US has much better wind and solar profiles, but I don’t think what works (or is affordable) on an individual level will scale up.

That said, I think a thread on home solar would be a good lessons learned. For that matter, home ownership in general so people can learn from the experiences of others. We are contemplating adding solar as a backup and would be curious to hear what others have to say.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I do think renewables can contribute, but you can’t run a modern society exclusively off of wind and solar as Germany is finding out. The US has much better wind and solar profiles, but I don’t think what works (or is affordable) on an individual level will scale up.

That said, I think a thread on home solar would be a good lessons learned. For that matter, home ownership in general so people can learn from the experiences of others. We are contemplating adding solar as a backup and would be curious to hear what others have to say.

I have a general contractor doing work right now on my house and this came up about a month ago. He said given the lifespan of the panels and of a standard roof you want to make sure you install the panels on a new or fairly new roof so you don't have a roof replacement before panels need to be replaced.

He said the cost and ROI depends on a few things but even with sending power to the grid the houses he has worked on were looking at about 10 years before it pays off, at least up by me.

 

[taxi1]

Interesting article in Wired about the recent heat wave and energy crunch in California.

Californiaâs Heat Wave Is a Big Moment for Batteries

Scorching temperatures in the Golden State are a test case for a more flexible energy grid.

www.wired.com

That risk arises from a brief, but important, mismatch between supply and demand. A growing share of the state’s energy is derived from solar panels, which made up about a fifth of its supply last year. But as the sun goes down and those panels stop receiving photons, demand for electricity keeps soaring. People get home from work and plug in their EVs, then flick on the air conditioning to clear out the afternoon stuffiness. Maybe they make dinner and run the dishwasher. Meanwhile, back at work, the lights in the office are probably still humming.

These were the concerns during this week’s heat emergency, when dozens of cities broke all-time temperature records and energy demand soared. But this time around, the California ISO had some extra juice to work with: a relatively new fleet of grid-scale batteries. They are designed to hold their power for about four hours—just long enough to cover the evening gap. At peak output, about 6 percent of the energy supply comes from these discharging batteries, up from 0.1 percent in 2017, according to an analysis by BloombergNEF. Capacity nearly doubled in the past year. Just after 6 pm on Tuesday, batteries surpassed the output of the state’s last remaining nuclear plant, peaking at just under 3,000 megawatts.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Cool. The point about energy storage and recapture is well taken. However, what type of batteries are they, and how long is their life cycle?

Need to consider all the angles to determine whether batteries really are better for the environment (in aggregate, not just in CA), than having Natural Gas (or other) power plants for surge capacity. Otherwise, it's just trading one form of pollution for another (and inducing additional supply chain and energy security risks in the bargain).

 

[ChuckMK23]

Random post - but second time renting a base model Tesla Model 3 from Hertz out of SFO - $300/week. Same rate/price as a Toyota/Hyundai compact. I'm sold on the technology and drivability. Would I spend $60K for one? No way. But if Uncle Sugar had a $20K tax incentive, I'd be all over it. Even with my 6'4" frame, it is a pleasure to drive and operate.

No issues with charging on 110 VAC household current. The standard and included "auto-steer" (not Autopilot) is fantastic on the highway as far as reducing fatigue and allowing you to safely browse your phone or divert your attention from driving.

I dont understand why Ford, GM, Toyota cannot deliver feature and quality parity to the Tesla Model 3 at $30K price point. Its a miss. Should be doable.

 

[taxi1]

Cool article. It's good to extrapolate things out to their limit to understand the math. This would be the theoretical 100% of everything.

How Much Land is Needed to Power the U.S. with Solar?

Solar power is essential for the clean energy transition, but how much land is needed to power the U.S. using solar panels?

elements.visualcapitalist.com

 

[Randy Daytona]

Random post - but second time renting a base model Tesla Model 3 from Hertz out of SFO - $300/week. Same rate/price as a Toyota/Hyundai compact. I'm sold on the technology and drivability. Would I spend $60K for one? No way. But if Uncle Sugar had a $20K tax incentive, I'd be all over it. Even with my 6'4" frame, it is a pleasure to drive and operate.

No issues with charging on 110 VAC household current. The standard and included "auto-steer" (not Autopilot) is fantastic on the highway as far as reducing fatigue and allowing you to safely browse your phone or divert your attention from driving.

I dont understand why Ford, GM, Toyota cannot deliver feature and quality parity to the Tesla Model 3 at $30K price point. Its a miss. Should be doable.

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How much is the battery pack? $10k, $15k, $20k ? And its only going to go up with the breaking down of supply chains and the exclusion of Russian raw materials from the market.

Personally, I would rather have a plug-in hybrid that allows 50-100 miles of battery range yet still gives you the internal combustion engine for long ranges and towing.

 

[taxi1]

And its only going to go up with the breaking down of supply chains and the exclusion of Russian raw materials from the market.

Long term, its only going to go down as capitalism and technology assaults the problem. Too much money to be made to just flutter our hands and give up.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Long term, its only going to go down as capitalism and technology assaults the problem. Too much money to be made to just flutter our hands and give up.

That’s a false dichotomy. Not mass-adopting the latest electric wizardry isn’t the same as giving up. Sustainability calls for efficiency and long-lasting equipment, so it doesn’t need to be replaced as often. Takes a lot of materials and energy to build a new car, for example. But sustainable energy practices could upend a lot of planned-obsolescence business models.

Mandating a whole bunch of new equipment because “electric is better” plays right into planned obsolescence and uses up resources faster. Meanwhile nobody is talking about how long those solar panels and batteries last, or that they’re strip-mined in Zimbabwe, or whether they can be recycled…

Buy efficient, buy for the long haul.

 

[Griz882]

That’s a false dichotomy. Not mass-adopting the latest electric wizardry isn’t the same as giving up. Sustainability calls for efficiency and long-lasting equipment, so it doesn’t need to be replaced as often. Takes a lot of materials and energy to build a new car, for example. But sustainable energy practices could upend a lot of planned-obsolescence business models.

Mandating a whole bunch of new equipment because “electric is better” plays right into planned obsolescence and uses up resources faster. Meanwhile nobody is talking about how long those solar panels and batteries last, or that they’re strip-mined in Zimbabwe, or whether they can be recycled…

Buy efficient, buy for the long haul.

Exactly! I personally see battery powered cars as a short-term stop gap (I don’t we’ll be driving battery cars as we know them today in 20 to 30 years). Something, possibly hydrogen fuel cells, will quickly replace them because they are resource intense, short ranged, and slowly fueled.

 

[taxi1]

Exactly! I personally see battery powered cars as a short-term stop gap

I think the current batteries will be short term. They’re furiously working on new battery chemistries and designs as I type. You’ll bring your car in, and they’ll swap in a new battery with far better capacity and life each time you replace it.