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engineers in the navy

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
And of course, you can always lateral transfer to CEC later on in your career if you choose this option. I've personally seen a Pilot and a SWO make the move to CEC.
And just to clarify, you can always apply later for a lateral transfer. Nothing is guaranteed.
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Not sure where you are in the whole continuity of life thingie…but I think you'd be surprised.
Been out since 2006. And yeah, I imagine it's partly due to the bubble where I live (a college town). But in my experience, senior leaders with no military experience really do not understand the level of authority, responsibility, and accountability a typical naval officer has. Do you have a different take?
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Well, you get articles like this one...

Can't say it applies to all companies, but the first reason given kind of tells it all: A private organization is going to be leery of hiring someone into a position that makes decisions when he/she doesn't know much about the ins and outs of the industry. It makes perfect sense, even though it may surprise people who have made a living by being thrust into positions that they weren't quite ready for in the military and grinding it out.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
Been out since 2006. And yeah, I imagine it's partly due to the bubble where I live (a college town). But in my experience, senior [industry] leaders with no military experience really do not understand the level of authority, responsibility, and accountability a typical naval officer has. Do you have a different take?
...Can't say it applies to all companies, but the first reason given kind of tells it all: A private organization is going to be leery of hiring someone into a position that makes decisions when he/she doesn't know much about the ins and outs of the industry. It makes perfect sense, even though it may surprise people who have made a living by being thrust into positions that they weren't quite ready for in the military and grinding it out.
Two very good perspectives…from different "angles":
Too Steve: The most honest answer I can give is "it depends". Yeah, if you're trying for a leadership position at Best Buy or The Brigantine or the Hilton chain of hotels…your military experience/leadership may not apply until you prove your mettle in their environment.

For Spekkio: Some of the same, but "industry" (by which I frankly and unashamedly mean the 'military-industrial complex' as defined by President Eisenhower…) may want EXACTLY what you bring to the table…current experience (e.g., "What are the REAL pressing problems in the field? What needs fixing first? What are we working on that's a waste of time?"), and some might want your ROLODEX of contacts…former COs, former whatever. Where can you open doors for us?

It just depends...
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Too Steve: The most honest answer I can give is "it depends". Yeah, if you're trying for a leadership position at Best Buy or The Brigantine or the Hilton chain of hotels…your military experience/leadership may not apply until you prove your mettle in their environment.
And I would contend that you have to prove your mettle regardless of industry or company. My point really is that the military experience/leadership isn't necessarily as valued as those in the inside may be led to believe. Not so much because people don't want to value it, but more simply because folks are just unaware of the scope of responsibility that we were accustomed to in the Navy/Marine Corps. That is the reality.

For Spekkio: Some of the same, but "industry" (by which I frankly and unashamedly mean the 'military-industrial complex' as defined by President Eisenhower…) may want EXACTLY what you bring to the table…
Yes, I fully expect those civilians to "get it."
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
For Spekkio: Some of the same, but "industry" (by which I frankly and unashamedly mean the 'military-industrial complex' as defined by President Eisenhower…) may want EXACTLY what you bring to the table…current experience (e.g., "What are the REAL pressing problems in the field? What needs fixing first? What are we working on that's a waste of time?"), and some might want your ROLODEX of contacts…former COs, former whatever. Where can you open doors for us?

It just depends...
I think that the article was speaking more broadly than that, even though it used DoD contractors as an example.

The Navy will gladly thrust people into higher positions and give them wiggle-room to 'figure it out.' As a new DIVO, I had no idea how ship's maintenance was supposed to work or how to have any sort of useful input to its scheduling. There's wiggle room for a new DH to screw up an availability schedule that causes divisions to stay late because O/T is free in the military. As a more senior example, one could feasibly make a career of being on pre-VLS SSNs and suddenly find himself assigned as the XO or CO of an SSBN.

Many private companies can't afford to pay a supervisory salary to someone who doesn't fully know what he's doing. They can't afford to implement the additional oversight and controls that the military does to try to cover for it (and neither can the Navy when it results in mishaps). I certainly don't envision a model in a private company that makes 20 people wait around while a new supervisor calls the CEO to get permission to authorize work, which you will frequently find if you walked onto boats in an availability, because the new supervisor doesn't have enough knowledge to be trusted with that responsibility. There are probably dozens of qualified candidates vying for the position who don't need some time to 'figure it out.' So when it comes to this...

And I would contend that you have to prove your mettle regardless of industry or company. My point really is that the military experience/leadership isn't necessarily as valued as those in the inside may be led to believe.
Yea, it depends, and just like we're painting with a broad brush in this thread, companies are likely to paint servicemembers with a broad brush. I think there are two things at play here as strikes against former officers and SNCOs...1) that companies think that we don't have enough in-depth knowledge of their industries to be successful in the higher positions we are accustomed to serving in the Navy and 2) that stereotypical military leadership techniques can be significantly different than those in the business world.
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think there are two things at play here as strikes against former officers and SNCOs...1) that companies think that we don't have enough in-depth knowledge of their industries to be successful in the higher positions we are accustomed to serving in the Navy
That's not really a strike. That's just reality. And I don't think transitioning officers expect to get hired at those higher level positions right out of the gate.

2) that stereotypical military leadership techniques can be significantly different than those in the business world.
What makes you think that?
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
So the below is coming from somebody who was a hiring manager at an aerospace company as it grew from start up to a mid-size company (not HR, the guy the people being hired would work for). I specifically wrote job descriptions to be military-friendly, pushed good military resumes to the front of the line to ensure they got screened, etc. and it could still be hard to find the guys we needed.

The biggest problems post-military guys have are with networking and resume writing. The reason retirees do better in military-industrial complex jobs is that their networking is better there, and there are more people likely to help getting their resumes through the log jam with HR like I did at my company. Just blindly sending your resume in on a company's online recruiting site has a very, very low rate of success (I actually got both my post-military jobs that way, but I'm the exception, not the rule). Find a buddy in the industry/company you are interested in and have them help you with your resume. Of the ~500 or so resumes I reviewed, I spent an average of maybe 15 seconds on each.

For engineers specifically (which is what I was hiring), the biggest problem post-military guys have is the fact that (with a few exceptions), your engineering knowledge from college isn't current and you have no experience as an actual engineer. And "experience as an actual engineer" means pushing drawings to the floor and being a capable CATIA/SolidWorks/Flowsim etc. driver. This limits you to management-type positions and there are simply far fewer of those around than there used to be.

I can't help but repeat this as I firmly believe it will help transitioning guys the most: you need to network so that you know the right people who can help with your resume, both writing it and even more importantly finding people who can hand-walk it past the first hurdle. Once you have that, then you will have the chance to show off those leadership qualities and job skills you hopefully were smart enough to spend time developing while you were in.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
So the below is coming from somebody who was a hiring manager at an aerospace company as it grew from start up to a mid-size company (not HR, the guy the people being hired would work for). I specifically wrote job descriptions to be military-friendly, pushed good military resumes to the front of the line to ensure they got screened, etc. and it could still be hard to find the guys we needed.

The biggest problems post-military guys have are with networking and resume writing. The reason retirees do better in military-industrial complex jobs is that their networking is better there, and there are more people likely to help getting their resumes through the log jam with HR like I did at my company. Just blindly sending your resume in on a company's online recruiting site has a very, very low rate of success (I actually got both my post-military jobs that way, but I'm the exception, not the rule). Find a buddy in the industry/company you are interested in and have them help you with your resume. Of the ~500 or so resumes I reviewed, I spent an average of maybe 15 seconds on each.

For engineers specifically (which is what I was hiring), the biggest problem post-military guys have is the fact that (with a few exceptions), your engineering knowledge from college isn't current and you have no experience as an actual engineer. And "experience as an actual engineer" means pushing drawings to the floor and being a capable CATIA/SolidWorks/Flowsim etc. driver. This limits you to management-type positions and there are simply far fewer of those around than there used to be.

I can't help but repeat this as I firmly believe it will help transitioning guys the most: you need to network so that you know the right people who can help with your resume, both writing it and even more importantly finding people who can hand-walk it past the first hurdle. Once you have that, then you will have the chance to show off those leadership qualities and job skills you hopefully were smart enough to spend time developing while you were in.
I'll second the need for a good network. With one exception all of my interviews were helped along by contacts on the inside. I think most people will be surprised to see how extensive your network is once you start exploring second and third degree connections.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
So the below is coming from somebody who was a hiring manager at an aerospace company as it grew from start up to a mid-size company (not HR, the guy the people being hired would work for). I specifically wrote job descriptions to be military-friendly, pushed good military resumes to the front of the line to ensure they got screened, etc. and it could still be hard to find the guys we needed.

The biggest problems post-military guys have are with networking and resume writing. The reason retirees do better in military-industrial complex jobs is that their networking is better there, and there are more people likely to help getting their resumes through the log jam with HR like I did at my company. Just blindly sending your resume in on a company's online recruiting site has a very, very low rate of success (I actually got both my post-military jobs that way, but I'm the exception, not the rule). Find a buddy in the industry/company you are interested in and have them help you with your resume. Of the ~500 or so resumes I reviewed, I spent an average of maybe 15 seconds on each.

For engineers specifically (which is what I was hiring), the biggest problem post-military guys have is the fact that (with a few exceptions), your engineering knowledge from college isn't current and you have no experience as an actual engineer. And "experience as an actual engineer" means pushing drawings to the floor and being a capable CATIA/SolidWorks/Flowsim etc. driver. This limits you to management-type positions and there are simply far fewer of those around than there used to be.

I can't help but repeat this as I firmly believe it will help transitioning guys the most: you need to network so that you know the right people who can help with your resume, both writing it and even more importantly finding people who can hand-walk it past the first hurdle. Once you have that, then you will have the chance to show off those leadership qualities and job skills you hopefully were smart enough to spend time developing while you were in.

I spend about the same time on each resume, just too many to spend much more on first look.
 

maysoe

New Member
Hi all.. i have something to ask about being officer. i graduated with chemical engineering with 3.3 gap . i took AOR but only get 45 because of english is my second language so i run out of time half way on Reading part. my recruiter put me on Engineering Duty Officer as first choose and Supply corp as second choose. but I only want to be Engineering field as navy officer so any other suggestion ? Supply corp is nothing to do with Engineering right? if i can't get in to Engineering Duty Officer any other engineering field that i can go? any body can guide me through it?
 

PenguinGal

Can Do!
Contributor
You are correct, Supply Corps doesn't have anything to do with engineering.

Just so you know, an EDO starts off their career by going subs, ship, or air to get qualified (dolphins, wings, etc), attend graduate school at one of a limited number of places, and THEN become EDOs. That means that for pretty much your first 4 years or so you won't be doing strictly engineering work.

There is the CEC (Civil Engineer Corps) but they really want people with degrees in Civil, Mechanical, and Electrical engineering. According to what I have read they look at other ABET accredited engineering degrees on a case by case basis. Talk with your recruiter.
 
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