Now, if only the civilians could understand that. But I digress...Nothing sez "leadership" on your future resume quite like having been a true leader…"
Now, if only the civilians could understand that. But I digress...Nothing sez "leadership" on your future resume quite like having been a true leader…"
And just to clarify, you can always apply later for a lateral transfer. Nothing is guaranteed.And of course, you can always lateral transfer to CEC later on in your career if you choose this option. I've personally seen a Pilot and a SWO make the move to CEC.
And just to clarify, you can always apply later for a lateral transfer. Nothing is guaranteed.
Not sure where you are in the whole continuity of life thingie…but I think you'd be surprised.Now, if only the civilians could understand that. But I digress...
Been out since 2006. And yeah, I imagine it's partly due to the bubble where I live (a college town). But in my experience, senior leaders with no military experience really do not understand the level of authority, responsibility, and accountability a typical naval officer has. Do you have a different take?Not sure where you are in the whole continuity of life thingie…but I think you'd be surprised.
Been out since 2006. And yeah, I imagine it's partly due to the bubble where I live (a college town). But in my experience, senior [industry] leaders with no military experience really do not understand the level of authority, responsibility, and accountability a typical naval officer has. Do you have a different take?
Two very good perspectives…from different "angles":...Can't say it applies to all companies, but the first reason given kind of tells it all: A private organization is going to be leery of hiring someone into a position that makes decisions when he/she doesn't know much about the ins and outs of the industry. It makes perfect sense, even though it may surprise people who have made a living by being thrust into positions that they weren't quite ready for in the military and grinding it out.
And I would contend that you have to prove your mettle regardless of industry or company. My point really is that the military experience/leadership isn't necessarily as valued as those in the inside may be led to believe. Not so much because people don't want to value it, but more simply because folks are just unaware of the scope of responsibility that we were accustomed to in the Navy/Marine Corps. That is the reality.Too Steve: The most honest answer I can give is "it depends". Yeah, if you're trying for a leadership position at Best Buy or The Brigantine or the Hilton chain of hotels…your military experience/leadership may not apply until you prove your mettle in their environment.
Yes, I fully expect those civilians to "get it."For Spekkio: Some of the same, but "industry" (by which I frankly and unashamedly mean the 'military-industrial complex' as defined by President Eisenhower…) may want EXACTLY what you bring to the table…
I think that the article was speaking more broadly than that, even though it used DoD contractors as an example.For Spekkio: Some of the same, but "industry" (by which I frankly and unashamedly mean the 'military-industrial complex' as defined by President Eisenhower…) may want EXACTLY what you bring to the table…current experience (e.g., "What are the REAL pressing problems in the field? What needs fixing first? What are we working on that's a waste of time?"), and some might want your ROLODEX of contacts…former COs, former whatever. Where can you open doors for us?
It just depends...
Yea, it depends, and just like we're painting with a broad brush in this thread, companies are likely to paint servicemembers with a broad brush. I think there are two things at play here as strikes against former officers and SNCOs...1) that companies think that we don't have enough in-depth knowledge of their industries to be successful in the higher positions we are accustomed to serving in the Navy and 2) that stereotypical military leadership techniques can be significantly different than those in the business world.And I would contend that you have to prove your mettle regardless of industry or company. My point really is that the military experience/leadership isn't necessarily as valued as those in the inside may be led to believe.
That's not really a strike. That's just reality. And I don't think transitioning officers expect to get hired at those higher level positions right out of the gate.I think there are two things at play here as strikes against former officers and SNCOs...1) that companies think that we don't have enough in-depth knowledge of their industries to be successful in the higher positions we are accustomed to serving in the Navy
What makes you think that?2) that stereotypical military leadership techniques can be significantly different than those in the business world.
I'll second the need for a good network. With one exception all of my interviews were helped along by contacts on the inside. I think most people will be surprised to see how extensive your network is once you start exploring second and third degree connections.So the below is coming from somebody who was a hiring manager at an aerospace company as it grew from start up to a mid-size company (not HR, the guy the people being hired would work for). I specifically wrote job descriptions to be military-friendly, pushed good military resumes to the front of the line to ensure they got screened, etc. and it could still be hard to find the guys we needed.
The biggest problems post-military guys have are with networking and resume writing. The reason retirees do better in military-industrial complex jobs is that their networking is better there, and there are more people likely to help getting their resumes through the log jam with HR like I did at my company. Just blindly sending your resume in on a company's online recruiting site has a very, very low rate of success (I actually got both my post-military jobs that way, but I'm the exception, not the rule). Find a buddy in the industry/company you are interested in and have them help you with your resume. Of the ~500 or so resumes I reviewed, I spent an average of maybe 15 seconds on each.
For engineers specifically (which is what I was hiring), the biggest problem post-military guys have is the fact that (with a few exceptions), your engineering knowledge from college isn't current and you have no experience as an actual engineer. And "experience as an actual engineer" means pushing drawings to the floor and being a capable CATIA/SolidWorks/Flowsim etc. driver. This limits you to management-type positions and there are simply far fewer of those around than there used to be.
I can't help but repeat this as I firmly believe it will help transitioning guys the most: you need to network so that you know the right people who can help with your resume, both writing it and even more importantly finding people who can hand-walk it past the first hurdle. Once you have that, then you will have the chance to show off those leadership qualities and job skills you hopefully were smart enough to spend time developing while you were in.
So the below is coming from somebody who was a hiring manager at an aerospace company as it grew from start up to a mid-size company (not HR, the guy the people being hired would work for). I specifically wrote job descriptions to be military-friendly, pushed good military resumes to the front of the line to ensure they got screened, etc. and it could still be hard to find the guys we needed.
The biggest problems post-military guys have are with networking and resume writing. The reason retirees do better in military-industrial complex jobs is that their networking is better there, and there are more people likely to help getting their resumes through the log jam with HR like I did at my company. Just blindly sending your resume in on a company's online recruiting site has a very, very low rate of success (I actually got both my post-military jobs that way, but I'm the exception, not the rule). Find a buddy in the industry/company you are interested in and have them help you with your resume. Of the ~500 or so resumes I reviewed, I spent an average of maybe 15 seconds on each.
For engineers specifically (which is what I was hiring), the biggest problem post-military guys have is the fact that (with a few exceptions), your engineering knowledge from college isn't current and you have no experience as an actual engineer. And "experience as an actual engineer" means pushing drawings to the floor and being a capable CATIA/SolidWorks/Flowsim etc. driver. This limits you to management-type positions and there are simply far fewer of those around than there used to be.
I can't help but repeat this as I firmly believe it will help transitioning guys the most: you need to network so that you know the right people who can help with your resume, both writing it and even more importantly finding people who can hand-walk it past the first hurdle. Once you have that, then you will have the chance to show off those leadership qualities and job skills you hopefully were smart enough to spend time developing while you were in.