ensigns and chiefs: the dynamic?

[ordinary_guy]

I'm curious about the relationship between these two parties. Would an ensign ever have a chief under his command? How would they handle the fact that the technical commander probably would know far less than his/her technical subordinate?

 

[bch]

As a div-o ( on a ship or sub ) usually an ensign you will have a chief or LPO under your charge in your division. Now, I am in the aviation community and have very little interaction with the enlisted side of the house here in the Training command, so I cannot really speak as to the relationship.

That being said, I have been on multiple cruises and what I have witnessed is that while the ensign is actually in charge, one of the chief's main responsibilities (unofficial of course) was to train the JO and help to mold them into an effective leader, while still maintaining the Chain of Command...

 

[Thisguy]

one of the chief's main responsibilities (unofficial of course) was to train the JO and help to mold them into an effective leader, while still maintaining the Chain of Command...

There's nothing unofficial about it. As an officer, you are not a specialist, and you will hold multiple jobs on a single sea tour, often without specific training. Think of the chief as your right hand man, he reports to you, but you better damn well listen to what he has to say. Ultimately, the Ensign has the final say, and to do so, you should gather all the information you can before you make that call.

Also, something else you'll notice in the fleet is that Chiefs are pretty close to officers in privledge. When liberty is called at a foreign port, E-7 and above gets off the boat first, and when we were in guam, the skipper had a "khaki pizza party" with the officer's mess pitching in for the pizza and beers.

Also, although there is a professional relationship, you can joke around more with the chiefs than you can the E-6 and below (at least in aviation anyway).

 

[webmaster]

Wow, one of the best questions I have seen on here in awhile that didn't involve:

- What are my chances of getting jets?
- What were the jet drops this week?
- I'm in high school and I know more than you. (jk, or maybe not)
- Academy is awesome... no ... NROTC is... blah

Anyways, I digress.... CPOs are the backbone of this Navy. The day to day operations of Naval commands depend on their expertise and leadership. A good CPO will make your life easy as a branch or divo. There isn't ANY doubt that a CPO will help train the junior officer just checking in. The JO that DOESN'T take advice from the CPO can end up looking foolish down the road, when they get counselled by their DH/XO that they should!! From being a wet behind the ears E1, to a freshly minted Ensign, Chiefs have been there to take care of me, lend me advice, and help pick up the pieces after a poor decision. You work as a team, as the JO, you are in charge, and have the ultimate responsibility for the running of your branch/division, etc. You more than likely are NOT the subject matter expert or specialist, but that is NOT your job. Your job is to handle the paperwork and manage the work of your sailors, ensuring that THEIR job can get done.

On the flip side, there are the strong CPOs out there that will test and push you, and may try the end run around you. For me, I would never undercut the leadership of the CPO, and never held for them doing the same to me.

Suffice it to say, I'm damned glad to have the CPO and LPO that I have, they make my life easy, but they also know that I will back them to the hilt.

 

[ordinary_guy]

Thanks for the info.

 

[kmac]

I thank you too for the info. I'm a LTJG that doesn't know ****. Who does the Skipper listen to more? A JO or a Chief (not counting the CMC)?

 

[bunk22]

I thank you too for the info. I'm a LTJG that doesn't know ****. Who does the Skipper listen to more? A JO or a Chief (not counting the CMC)?

I'm just going to have to agree with you kmac, you don't know ****.

Oh yeah, thank God for Chiefs.

 

[kmac]

How is that they made you an OIC? I thought bribery was illegal!

 

[RXSilver]

ok this is pretty dumb but ill ask it.....hows the food for the officers compared to the chiefs mess?

 

[webmaster]

I thank you too for the info. I'm a LTJG that doesn't know ****. Who does the Skipper listen to more? A JO or a Chief (not counting the CMC)?

Glad you recognize you don't know ****. Seen many guys that don't realize that, heck, I am STILL learning new stuff, and the Navy is always changing. That is a really open ended question, a good CO has good ties to his goat locker and CMC, and through them gets a feel for his squadron and enlisted sailors. As Legal Officer, Strike Officer, and now QAO, I have been in the position of giving advice to the CO on certain subjects, invariable I have sought counsel from both my sailors and especially my CPOs. In many cases the whole chain of command is in the COs office giving input. I would think from the CO's side, they are going to weigh all the issues, and also look at the experience level/knowledge of the one providing it.

hows the food for the officers compared to the chiefs mess?

Hands down, submarine chow is the best I have seen. Onboard ship, the CPOs have their **** in one sock, and basically are better organized in laying in the extra funds to outfit their mess for meals underway. I would say that they have the better spread, seeing as how they have more experience setting that up, vice a bunch of JOs doing it for the first time running the wardroom mess with help from the CHOP. Just my opinion, been underway on two different surface vessels as a guest, and had to pay dues, and wasn't all that impressed.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

Wait, that last post confused me. So you pay dues to eat at a mess hall? And there are different mess halls? How is it organized? I was under the impression that there was a mess for officers and enlisted, and it was like a cafeteria just seperated so that the officers and enlisted didn't mingle.

 

[Thisguy]

If you go carrier aviation, here's what you're looking at:

Officers eat in the Wardroom. Now on a carrier, there's two wardrooms: the forward wardroom, and the "downstairs" wardroom. When the airwing is not onboard, generally the forward wardroom is closed because it is on the top level, and most of the squadrons are up there, so it opens up when we come aboard. The downstairs wardroom is where ships company eats, and is open all the time. Some carriers are anal and say you have to be in khakis to eat there (i.e. no flightsuits). However, the Chucky V wasn't, and let me tell you, the downstairs wardroom is way better than the forward. The food is the same in the serving line is the same, but the extras like the salad bar and desserts kick ass. Anyway, I've rambled too much. Yeah, you pay a mess bill when you're on the ship, it's something like 8 bucks a day.

There's also the flag mess. I'll let you guess who eats there.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

Does that 8 bucks come out of your BAS? Cause that turns out to be like what? 1400 for a 6 month cruise?

 

[Thisguy]

For the enlisted, when they deploy, they stop receiving BAS, but don't pay for food. For officers, you get your BAS, and write checks to the CVN-XX Officer's mess. Keep in mind that you only pay for the days your underway, so you won't be charged for the days you're in port. Of course, there are days you'll be saddled with duty and if you eat in the wardroom, you check your name off for your meals. Don't worry so much about BAS, it doesn't cover your food, so you may as well just think of it as part of your paycheck. Besides, when you do your first sea tour as an NFO, you'll be a JG approaching that phat 3 year raise. Those mess bills will be peanuts.

 

[RXSilver]

ya i just wanted to know about what officers eat. When i ate in the chiefs mess, i was way impressed. it wasnt what i expected at all. i was expecting meat loaf or chicken breast, but there i was eating t-bone steak and lobster tail.