EPs

[Fezz CB]

I just checked into Primary last week. I have a month wait before I class up. I was just wondering what things I should start "familiarizing" myself with? Everyone says the boldface EP's, op limits and normal procedures. I can find the limits and normal procedures in the flight manual, but where are these boldface EPs?? Or is that just air force? In the flight manual, it says navy is only committed to the asterisk marked EPs for memory. Or do I just memorize all EPs? I went crossed eyed just browsing through the flight manual. Any advice would be great. Thanks.

-Fezz

 

[Fly Navy]

I just checked into Primary last week. I have a month wait before I class up. I was just wondering what things I should start "familiarizing" myself with? Everyone says the boldface EP's, op limits and normal procedures. I can find the limits and normal procedures in the flight manual, but where are these boldface EPs?? Or is that just air force? In the flight manual, it says navy is only committed to the asterisk marked EPs for memory. Or do I just memorize all EPs? I went crossed eyed just browsing through the flight manual. Any advice would be great. Thanks.

-Fezz

Memorize the boldface (the asterisked) procedures. That's a start. Some procedures you should be familiar with that aren't boldface. Nicknamed "non-boldface boldface" by some of us here... You'll figure out which procedures are worth memorizing from the studs ahead of you and on here.

What you should really be concentrating is your alcoholism.

 

[ChunksJR]

Crew, Canopy, Harness, Cords, Mask, Crouch, Dive, Pull. Slower, Lower, Talk/Squawk, Kill (emergency engine shutdown), Turn (toward an unpopulated (or uneducated) area)

What the hell are you thinking? You don't have 1/2 of that crap anymore...DUMP IT NUGGET!

 

[pdx]

I just checked into Primary last week. I have a month wait before I class up. I was just wondering what things I should start "familiarizing" myself with? Everyone says the boldface EP's, op limits and normal procedures. I can find the limits and normal procedures in the flight manual, but where are these boldface EPs?? Or is that just air force? In the flight manual, it says navy is only committed to the asterisk marked EPs for memory. Or do I just memorize all EPs? I went crossed eyed just browsing through the flight manual. Any advice would be great. Thanks.

-Fezz

I assume the "flight manual" you are refering to is the T-34 model NATOPS. EPs are always in chapter 14 and the pages have black hatching on the borders. You also want to open the PCL (NATOPS Pocket Checklist), it has the condensed version. The full NATOPS stuff is important to know, but the PCL has the content you should memorize. In case all the pubs are confusing, the PCL is the smaller book that is spiral bound with a clear plastic cover. One side has yellow pages and the other has white.

Also a word about the asterisks. The NATOPS specifically says the items with an asterisk are "immediate action items" to be committed to memory. For any other item, you are supposed to break out your PCL and read them like any other checklist. In flight school, however, they pretty much expect you to memorize everything in the PCL. Most of the IPs in my squadron let me paraphrase the landing gear emergencies because they are pretty long and detailed. Plus, it isn't like landing gear emergencies are time critical.

 

[ChunksJR]

For any other item, you are supposed to break out your PCL and read them like any other checklist. In flight school, however, they pretty much expect you to memorize everything in the PCL.

As an IP, you memorize a checklist that's NOT asterisked AND get it wrong...I'll ding you hard. VERY HARD.

Mandatory Memorizing of procedures NOT asterisked is against the procedures the NATOPS was created to establish. DO NOT DO IT. And if you do do it, GOD help you if you get it wrong when you fly with me.

But that's me. If you have an IP that makes you memorize non-asterisked procedures, you should challenge him/her on it. If (s)he gives you a hard time about that, than I feel (s)he's wrong. You have to decide where you want to go from there...if you want to fight it in the STAN office, you can, but it's going to be hard and it's going to give you a reputation...but very rarely is the right thing, the easy thing to do.

Just realize that memorization of Non-asterisked items in the fleet doesn't happen...

 

[pdx]

As an IP, you memorize a checklist that's NOT asterisked AND get it wrong...I'll ding you hard. VERY HARD.

Mandatory Memorizing of procedures NOT asterisked is against the procedures the NATOPS was created to establish. DO NOT DO IT. And if you do do it, GOD help you if you get it wrong when you fly with me.

But that's me. If you have an IP that makes you memorize non-asterisked procedures, you should challenge him/her on it. If (s)he gives you a hard time about that, than I feel (s)he's wrong. You have to decide where you want to go from there...if you want to fight it in the STAN office, you can, but it's going to be hard and it's going to give you a reputation...but very rarely is the right thing, the easy thing to do.

Just realize that memorization of Non-asterisked items in the fleet doesn't happen...

I agree with this 100%. It is very frustrating that some IPs and many sim instructors do expect the non-asterisk items to be memorized. The whole reason NATOPS makes the distinction is because they are not immediate action. It's DANGEROUS to memorize non-memory items. Still most students that bring this up get treated like they are just whining about having to memorize too much.

A few IPs explained to me that this is the way its done in flight school, and when we get to the RAG, we'll learn the way the fleet does it. It didn't sound like a good answer, but I saw that IPs argue about this kind of stuff too, so I focused on more relevant things - like learning to fly the T-34.

When I was asked for non-memory items in a brief, I would say the first step was to break out my PCL and read the steps. If the IP still wanted the steps, I would just recite them. Nevermind that this is against NATOPS. At the beginning of primary, we don't really understand what NATOPS is anyway. And we definitly don't understand the big difference between NATOPS, the FTIs, SOP, and "technique." It sinks in after a while, though

 

[Gatordev]

I just checked into Primary last week. I have a month wait before I class up. I was just wondering what things I should start "familiarizing" myself with? Everyone says the boldface EP's, op limits and normal procedures. I can find the limits and normal procedures in the flight manual, but where are these boldface EPs?? Or is that just air force? In the flight manual, it says navy is only committed to the asterisk marked EPs for memory. Or do I just memorize all EPs? I went crossed eyed just browsing through the flight manual. Any advice would be great. Thanks.

-Fezz

While I was standing duty out at Barin one day, I started flipping through the T-6 PCL. I went cross-eyed as well. It was all foreign to me. What the hell do all the little letters mean next to the EP? It was just different enough to make me completely confused (and it doesn't have to be much).

 

[Harrier Dude]

Step one of any EP is generally "wind the clock".

The meaning of that is to stop, analyze the situation, and THEN act. Reciting boldface NATOPS is not a speed contest. Be smooth and deliberate. As an IP, I would rather you say the EP steps slowly, smoothly, and thoroughly (and know why you are doing it) than just blast through it like a trained monkey. It'll help you lots later when the steps don't always work.

 

[MasterBates]

Just realize that memorization of Non-asterisked items in the fleet doesn't happen...

Chunks, I agree with you 100% on that you SHOULD not have to have it memorized if it is not asterisked. Familiar, but not memorized.

HOWEVER, I have seen a few non-memory memory items that are asked quite often in my comminity on NATOPS checks and such.

 

[MasterBates]

Maybe HSC is starting out "by the book". Not a bad thing. LAMPS has a lot of "Tribal Knowledge" that is either not in the book, poorly written in the book, or "The Man" thinks it should be asterisked, but has not changed it.

My $.02

 

[gregsivers]

Step one of any EP is generally "wind the clock".

The meaning of that is to stop, analyze the situation, and THEN act. Reciting boldface NATOPS is not a speed contest. Be smooth and deliberate. As an IP, I would rather you say the EP steps slowly, smoothly, and thoroughly (and know why you are doing it) than just blast through it like a trained monkey. It'll help you lots later when the steps don't always work.

The 60B NATOPS has a catch-all EP at the begining of Chapter 12 that pretty much says that. 1) Maintain control of the aircraft 2) Determine the precise nature of the problem 3) Complete the applicable EP or take action appropriate for the problem 4) Determine landing criteria and land as required. My onwing in HTs made me memorize that even though its not in the 57 NATOPS. Seemed to work pretty well.

 

[ChunksJR]

HOWEVER, I have seen a few non-memory memory items that are asked quite often in my comminity on NATOPS checks and such.

Yeah, we did that too...to which the correct answer was "Whip out the PCL..."

I also agree familariarity is NOT bad...so have an idea of what the inexperienced PQM is going to do next...even though he doesn't have it memorized.

 

[MasterBates]

It went down the "Ok, it blew out the window, what is the procedure" on my last NATOPS check.

There are some things (like underwater egress) that really should be asterick items. But, what do I know, I'm just a senior (by time in command) LT, with every qual a JO can have.

The catch all 60B item that Greg talked about, especially part 3 has saved my butt on more than I occasion, being able to "take action appropriate" and get things back to some semblance of functioning.

BTW, does the 60S NATOPS have "Voltage Sensor Relay" EP? They are looking at adding it to ours. The 60J has it.

 

[gregsivers]

There are some things (like underwater egress) that really should be asterick items. But, what do I know, I'm just a senior (by time in command) LT, with every qual a JO can have.

I wondered why the underwater egress isn't memorized myself when I first started learning. Not really a whole lot of time or light to look that one up while you're flipping upside down.

 

[ChunksJR]

It went down the "Ok, it blew out the window, what is the procedure" on my last NATOPS check.

"Roger, use the big blue in back."
"Roger, Crewman XXX read the procedure please"
"Roger, close the window and take controls, while I whip MINE out" hehe...

There are some things (like underwater egress) that really should be asterick items.

60S's was asterisked. I'd encourage you to put that in to the front office for an SOP change then...that way it's written down. One of the big problems we've run into at the HTs is after all the mishaps we've had...some of the things we were doing was "technique" and not written down anywhere...well, it bit us in the a$$ when the Mishap IP was asked why he did XXXX...

BTW, does the 60S NATOPS have "Voltage Sensor Relay" EP? They are looking at adding it to ours. The 60J has it.

Unless I am forgetting my 60S NATOPS, we didn't have a Voltage Sensor Relay...Pags, Squorch??? Help!? God bless the brain dump...