Europe under extreme duress

[Random8145]

Read the quoted comments…you’ll get it.

Yes I know, but because as ea6bflyr points out, it is an improper word that is nonetheless still a word due to its extremely common usage, I wasn't sure if nittany03 was using it in jest or just didn't realize. It is no big deal of course.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Yes I know, but because as ea6bflyr points out, it is an improper word that is nonetheless still a word due to its extremely common usage, I wasn't sure if nittany03 was using it in jest or just didn't realize. It is no big deal of course.

The term is "non-standard"

 

[nittany03]

One could say that their efforts . . . backfired.

 

[Griz882]

One could say that their efforts . . . backfired.

Guess it can’t dodge drones when it is sitting still. Fatal flaw in the design?

 

[vxc961]

“Moscow said that a drone was hit by small-arms fire but managed to ‘damage’ a plane.”

 

[nittany03]

“Moscow said that a drone was hit by small-arms fire but managed to ‘damage’ a plane.”

Baghdad Bob unavailable for comment . . .

 

[jmcquate]

Look like the Russian crash crew snapped into action....................oh wait.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Let me express my view in August 2023 as an active participant in the Americam electorate. I am losing patience with Ukraine. I am losing patience with the lack of strategic progress on the part of Ukraine. This war has devolved into a transactional infrantry and artillary battle with zero progress by Ukraine. Its banal, noise, boring, and quicly becoming unworthy of my support as a voter.

We are spending diplomatic and muilitary equity with no real return on our investment. The resource requests from Ukraine grow larger with a seemingly endless beauracratic response with no tangible action eon the part of NATO or US. I don't get it at all as a voter.

Where are our intrests being served?

If we are going to arm and support Ukraine then lets do it for god's sake. Do their pilots need to be trained abd certified to perfect peacetime standards? Why nopt simply give the Ukraine forces the early block F-16's and let them create a minimally viable solution to emply these assets with the low value admin overhead that would apply to traditional Western/US military traininig and readiness requirements?

Exhausting. I've written my respective congressional reps. Either commit 110% and win this war or simply sue for peace around current lines and call it done so we can move forward as a economy and country.

 

[nittany03]

Let me express my view in August 1940 as an active participant in the American electorate. I am losing patience with Britain. I am losing patience with the lack of strategic progress on the part of Britain. This war has devolved into a transactional air battle with zero progress by Britain. It's banal, noise, boring, and quickly becoming unworthy of my support as a voter.

We are spending diplomatic and military equity with no real return on our investment. The resource requests from Ukraine grow larger with a seemingly endless bureaucratic response with no tangible action on the part of NATO or US. I don't get it at all as a voter.

Where are our interests being served?

Jesus Christ, Chuck. The usual foolishness and short-sightedness of your geopolitical takes is matched this time by your utter lack of spelling. Are you drunk? Have another one.

These people are fighting for their lives and to protect their democracy against an insane dictator, and you're talking about what you're ENTITLED to as some random American sitting on the couch?? News flash: precisely zero people fighting over there give a tin shit about whether you think they're worthy of you.

 

[croakerfish]

Let me express my view in August 2023 as an active participant in the Americam electorate. I am losing patience with Ukraine. I am losing patience with the lack of strategic progress on the part of Ukraine. This war has devolved into a transactional infrantry and artillary battle with zero progress by Ukraine. Its banal, noise, boring, and quicly becoming unworthy of my support as a voter.

We are spending diplomatic and muilitary equity with no real return on our investment. The resource requests from Ukraine grow larger with a seemingly endless beauracratic response with no tangible action eon the part of NATO or US. I don't get it at all as a voter.

Where are our intrests being served?

If we are going to arm and support Ukraine then lets do it for god's sake. Do their pilots need to be trained abd certified to perfect peacetime standards? Why nopt simply give the Ukraine forces the early block F-16's and let them create a minimally viable solution to emply these assets with the low value admin overhead that would apply to traditional Western/US military traininig and readiness requirements?

Exhausting. I've written my respective congressional reps. Either commit 110% and win this war or simply sue for peace around current lines and call it done so we can move forward as an economy and country.

Your argument is that it’s too boring? How many LCS’s worth of money and equipment have we given them anyway? At least by giving it to them we see a tangible outcome.

 

[Brett327]

Its banal, noise, boring, and quicly becoming unworthy of my support as a voter.

Sorry that a democratic nation fighting for it's existence against the absolute worst bully on the international stage isn't exciting enough for you, Chuck. I know you can't help it most of the time, but that's really fucking stupid, Chuck... like, you're a bad person for saying what you said. Really disappointing.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Well so be it. Convince me otherwise. The snail pace of us being "halfway in" doesnt seem to be netting any benefit for us as a country. Is there a long term strategy? Have our political leaders made a case with a stated end game? Will this be another forever war? I vote - I have agency.

I've read plenty of Eastern European literature in college - Jerzy Kosinski.

If the virtue of a long struggle was self evident - well, it would be self evident. What is the end game here? How much is enough?

Rhetorically - why isnt every flyable early block F-16 and F-18 being regen out of Davis Monthan/AMARC and being sent UKR via Poland?

 

[ChuckMK23]

A well articulated summary of options and end-game scenarios by Politico:

Opinion | Here Are 3 Ways to End the War in Ukraine. One Might Actually Work.

Putin has a veto over two endgames for Ukraine. But there’s a third that would bypass him.

www.politico.com

 

[JTS11]

...We are spending diplomatic and muilitary equity with no real return on our investment. The resource requests from Ukraine grow larger with a seemingly endless beauracratic response with no tangible action eon the part of NATO or US. I don't get it at all as a voter.

Where are our intrests being served?

I don't understand your point. It seems you are saying that either we start trucking jets in from Poland, or just cut bait and run. IMHO, this would embolden bad actors around the world and threaten the rules based world order. It would signal to them that we are only reliable until demagogues abuse our 2 yr domestic political cycle to sway public opinion. That's what Putin is counting on...For the Wesr to get 'bored'..

I think the debate should be between the status quo of what we and our allies are doing now, and what additional capabilities we can provide them IOT defeat this genocidal invasion of a democratic country that is seeking to join the West.

It may be a bit of a slog. but Russia has already lost. Cutting Ukraine off now would be unconscionable.

The aid we are providing is pennies on the dollar of our annual defense budget. The Russian military is getting wrecked. Pretty good return on investment, if you ask me. Also, the accesion of Finland and Sweden to NATO is 'chef's kiss'.

 

[Brett327]

Well so be it. Convince me otherwise. The snail pace of us being "halfway in" doesnt seem to be netting any benefit for us as a country.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you completely insane? I'm kind of baffled at the depths of your stupidity right now. Who put these absurd ideas in your brain?