I didn't say national pride was the sole factor, just an important one My point on the Czechs was that they immediately were prepared to stand and fight against the Germans, not fold. The French in WWII had a willingness to fight, and they did try, but their military was not at all prepared for the then new combined arms method of warfare that the Germans employed. The Germans also took a risk and went through the Ardennes mountains which nobody thought they could possibly do because it would require them to stop and rest and eventually they'd be found out. Also the weather could be a risk. The Germans used crystal meth to stay awake and the weather held, so they drove straight through, never stopping, and emerged into relatively undefended territory.
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Europe under extreme duress
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
Oh, you mean like experts?
Yep. You really had to go through all that to figure out "qualified authors" is just another way of saying experts? If I had said I read books/articles by experts, you could have just as easily asked how do I determine whether one is an expert or not? You are probably getting at how do I see those experts as authoritative while being more skeptical of other experts on say foreign policy, but I've already explained that multiple times.
Don't feed the troll. He provides no content or contribution of any kind to the thread and then asks you where you got your info, without calling attention to anything you said that he believes is incorrect.. he's doing nothing but distracting from an otherwise good discussion. A moderator who only serves to detract from the useful content of the forum and derail discussions.
The military staff's concern about Czech military power ≠ the Czechs stopping Hitler. In early '38, Hitler restructured the high command and solidified the de facto role for himself as the chief military decision-maker (however unqualified he may have been). While the Czech military situation affected the occupation plan in various ways, Hitler was determined to go to to war with Czechoslovakia over the continued objections of many of his generals, and his vote was the only one that mattered by that time. Some of the generals actually would've initiated a coup against Hitler if war with Czechoslovakia proceeded, but that doesn't really matter because Hitler didn't know of these plots.
Hitler admitting after the fact the significance of the Czech military defense ≠ the Czechs stopping Hitler. His mindset prior to the Munich conference in September is what matters, not his mindset months later when he arrived in Prague. Scholars disagree on the exact motivations for Hitler shifting from a certain path of war with Czechoslovakia to agreeing to meet at Munich for a diplomatic solution, but intel on Czech defenses is just one of several factors, with Italy's flagging support of the operation and both French and British pressures appearing to be the more significant.
The broader response from major powers that might have happened ≠ the Czechs stopping Hitler. First, the Czech mobilization ultimately had no bearing on this. Second, all leaders involved in the crisis made their decisions based not only what they knew but also on what they believed about their adversary (whether such beliefs are warranted or not). Hitler had intel on Czech defenses, but believed that the Wehrmacht would somehow prevail against it. Hitler knew that France and Britain would likely have made the war costly if not fatal for Germany if they had intervened, but believed that they wouldn't intervene. France and Britain should've known that the balance of power was in their favor, but believed that it wasn't, and in any case acted on the motivation that war with Germany was simply unacceptable for the interests at stake. Benes knew (or should've known) that Czechoslovakia stood a chance to face Germany alone, but his defense policy was so linked to his arrangement with France and Britain that he lost faith when they left him with the choice to cede Sudetenland or fight alone.
For more information:
- Black, Naomi. “Decision-Making and the Munich Crisis.” British Journal of International Studies 6, no. 3 (1980): 278–303. http://www.jstor.org/stable/20096894.
- Hill, Leonidas. “Three Crises, 1938-39.” Journal of Contemporary History 3, no. 1 (1968): 113–44. http://www.jstor.org/stable/259970.
- Daryl G. Press. “The Credibility of Power: Assessing Threats during the ‘Appeasement’ Crises of the 1930s.” International Security 29, no. 3 (2004): 136–69. http://www.jstor.org/stable/4137558.
- Vital, David. “Czechoslovakia and the Powers, September 1938.” Journal of Contemporary History 1, no. 4 (1966): 37–67. http://www.jstor.org/stable/259891.
- Campbell, Kenneth J. “Colonel General Ludwig Beck: Conspirator.” American Intelligence Journal 31, no. 1 (2013): 123–29. http://www.jstor.org/stable/26202052.
It's obvious that you're responding to Mirage, but seems like you're generalizing what was a more specific conversation, i.e., military performance of countries against Germany during WWII. The Czech government diplomatically ceded their borderlands to the Germans in September '38, and the rest of itself in March '39, without any state of war or significant national resistance. Seems like apples and oranges to compare this with the other nations that Germany occupied thereafter.
We're a long way from the current situation in Europe. Perhaps a thread-split is in order here?
Here’s a picture of a Russian hypersonic taking a nap in the Ukraine…back on track! I know, I know…it’s a gift.
In other news I am impressed by the Ukrainian UAV attack on the Russian bomber base. A pin prick for sure, but I imagine it might have an impact on how Russia approaches the rest of the war.
Sounds like someone's been playing Scrabble.
I bet you owe Google's spell checker a beer
Highlights my earlier point about 'hypersonics'. That's a ballistic missile, either air or ground launched, and likely flies at hypersonic speed but not what many think of as a 'hypersonic weapon'.
She looks pretty intact, it would be really nice to get our hands on that.
I've seen babies put down in the crib harder than that thing landed.
Trojan ballistic missile?
Especially since it is one of Russia's strategic nuclear bomber airfields.
My Uncle Carmine used to pick up all sorts of cool things that fell off the back of trucks. I can give him a call if ya like. He specializes in consumer electronics, but I am sure he'd take the job. C.O.D. Port of New Jersey ok?