FAA Mandates ADS-B to replace transponders by 2020

[squorch2]

Another nifty feature: most new TVs have a built in digital tuner - combine it with the rabbit ears and you get crystal clear HD channels. Bonus: most HD stations have "subchannels" that run additional programming like weather or old 50s/60s/70s shows. Drawback: rabbit ears look weird.

 

[phrogdriver]

Wow, this thread has gone in so many directions, it's crazy.

No sane politician is going to vote for a giveaway program for airplane owners. Most (though not all) owners are fairly well-off. Whatever the relative merits of this vs. other wasteful government spending, it's not going to happen.

BTW, as far as the digital converter voucher, screw grandma. TV isn't a right. TVs are cheap enough nowadays that is you can't save up for one with a year's notice, you really need to get another job instead of wasting your life in front of the tube.

 

[A4sForever]

...BTW, as far as the digital converter voucher, screw grandma ... you really need to get another job instead of wasting your life in front of the tube.

Ah, yes ... the ignorance and impatience of youth.

Wait 'til he's sittin' in the rocking chair with a shawl around his shoulders, suckin' soup through a straw, with his teeth sitting in a glass on the nightstand ... then we'll see what song he's singin' ...

Age = the great equalizer. Let's just hope you-all make the cut.

 

[yak52driver]

I love ADS-B. I used to rent Cessna's with a color moving map/gps and ADS-B. It was a great tool to see all the little airplanes on the screen as you were buzzing around. Definitely an SA builder in an area like DC where lots of planes have it and pop up on the screen.

"Oh, 5 planes in the pattern at Easton? Three at Bay Bridge. . . Six more in the practice area. . . I'll just go head down here. . ."

I don't disagree that it will add to SA when properly used. But I also fly with pilots that have all the glass and don't look outside the airplane anymore. They have less SA because they are so dependent on the technology they don't use it in conjuntion with solid stick and rudder skills, IMHO. I was flying with a local Cirrus driver one fine VFR day and he became very concerned because there was a plane on the box two or three miles at 3 o'clock. I was tally on the plane and said, "it's right there if you'd look outside". My hope is that by 2020 the price and size (panel area) of the installation will be reasonable. My plane is pretty chocked full of monster russian instruments, I had to put a Micro-Aire transponder in, it has a 2" diameter and fit in an existing hole. But when the time comes, I'll have to comply.

 

[yak52driver]

When was the transponder mandated for use? Was there a fuss back then over it? Actually, there are still routes in bigger terminal areas for non transponder equipped aircraft. And how about non radar contact procedures for instrument flying? The way I see it, the system is already in place for non ADS-B aircraft. It's the same procedures that non transponder aircraft can use. You may say it's not practical, but if you want to be outside the box and not have the equipment to be plugged into this century's ATC, then you need to be ready operate outside that box without bitching.

You are required to have an operating mode C transponder to fly in class A, B, C airspace, above 10,000 feet MSL (with the exclusion of airspace below 2,500 AGL) or over the top of class B and C airspace. Apart from that, you don't have to have a transponder. I fly a couple of J-3 Cubs and a little Cassutt racer that have no electrical system, and no transponder. But it limits where I can go.

 

[A4sForever]

I don't disagree that it will add to SA when properly used. But I also fly with pilots that have all the glass and don't look outside the airplane anymore. They have less SA because they are so dependent on the technology they don't use it in conjuntion with solid stick and rudder skills ....

And that's the key: you use everything at your disposal to make YOU a better 'driver' and get the plane from 'A to B' safely and efficiently. It's the same in civvie-street or in the military.

I've seen guys -- again, both civvie & military, that had no concept of lookout doctrine (one or two were even fighter jocks) -- their entire world was 3' in diameter (simulator trained scope-head syndrome??) and they had their heads in the cockpit -- and essentially, up their ass -- most of the time. As a result, they frequently missed bogeys, targets, the ship, traffic, WX, the pretty clouds, and the birds & the bees ...

All-around SA will become even MORE important w/ the implementation of ADS-B as closer spacing, reduced ceiling/visibility restrictions, and reduced separation becomes the order of the day. When it comes right down to it -- that's why the FEDs are so 'eager' to bring it online: it will increase the system capacity at someone else's expense. And there WILL be errors when used in the cockpits of 'occasional users' ....

Having said that: unfunded mandate or not -- if it goes down in 2020 and the FEDs say you gotta' have it -- then you gotta' have it.

 

[Brunes]

You are required to have an operating mode C transponder to fly in class A, B, C airspace, above 10,000 feet MSL (with the exclusion of airspace below 2,500 AGL) or over the top of class B and C airspace. Apart from that, you don't have to have a transponder. I fly a couple of J-3 Cubs and a little Cassutt racer that have no electrical system, and no transponder. But it limits where I can go.

I think his "when was" question was more in relation to what year did xpdr use become mando. Hence the follow up question "Was there a fuss back then over it?"

The tech for basic transponders was developed as an IFF system in WWII. It was integrated into military/NORAD system architecture before the Cold War. It was adopted into GA use int he 1950's (Sorry...I don't have more specific dates and I wasn't around then to tell you if folks were upset by the additional requirement)

 

[yak52driver]

I think his "when was" question was more in relation to what year did xpdr use become mando. Hence the follow up question "Was there a fuss back then over it?"

The tech for basic transponders was developed as an IFF system in WWII. It was integrated into military/NORAD system architecture before the Cold War. It was adopted into GA use int he 1950's (Sorry...I don't have more specific dates and I wasn't around then to tell you if folks were upset by the additional requirement)

Ah, after rereading his question I believe you are correct! Nice catch!

 

[Jim123]

"Project Beacon" is a good start for a keyword search for our resident history buffs.

@Yak52, I've seen major brand Mode S boxes that fit a 2" instrument hole. They stick out about 9" behind the panel though, not sure how that compares with your Micro-Aire.

Would this be a bad time to bring up 8.33kHz spacing? :icon_smil

 

[phrogdriver]

Ah, yes ... the ignorance and impatience of youth.

Wait 'til he's sittin' in the rocking chair with a shawl around his shoulders, suckin' soup through a straw, with his teeth sitting in a glass on the nightstand ... then we'll see what song he's singin' ...

Age = the great equalizer. Let's just hope you-all make the cut.

I'm just sayin'...they only gave everyone a couple YEARS heads-up on this one. Just cut back a little on the Geritol and you should be able to save up for another TV, or at least a converter box yourself.

 

[statesman]

Granted the FAA might put a burden on GA guys out there, but if there is a plus (which I think there are many) it will be that the aviation industry on the whole will be forced to modernize a little bit.

I know that VOR/TACAN, NDB etc navigation has worked, and worked well for a very long time. And that there are plenty of experienced aviators that execute single navaid intersection holding like they were taking a piss, but the fact remains that the aviation industry on the whole is a little behind the times. Based on our level of technological development (i.e. computers, thin display technology, GPS, etc), especially here in the US, its very disappointing that the aviation industry is as far behind as it is.

Granted I know this sort of equipment has to be about 10x more reliable than the Garmin in your car, and that the airlines are pretty much up to date, AND that all this advanced tech is REALLY expensive for GA, but it's still frustrating. As the FAA begins to require small bits of older tech to be upgraded the system will modernize, and that's generally a good thing.

 

[Jim123]

^^^

Coincidentally, about a week ago the FCC announced that as of August 2010 (yes, two months from now) 121.5 ELTs will be banned (yes, you read that correctly). Of course AOPA and EAA are pushing back on that one so we'll see how it plays out... real soon. (Note, SARSAT stopped monitoring 121.5 over a year ago and the new 406 ELTs are already required in a lot of other countries.)

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-103A1.pdf

 

[HokiePilot]

BTW, SARSAT also stopped monitoring 243.0 MHz.

 

[Pepe]

BTW, SARSAT also stopped monitoring 243.0 MHz.

So...who monitors it?

 

[SynixMan]

So...who monitors it?

Well the Air Force uses it a lot...