FAA MCA - Military Competance Airplane

[ryan1234]

You don't do a legit NATOPS instrument check in the T-34/T-6 unless you're an IP. In Primary it's usually just a departure, point-to-point, a few turns in holding, and three approaches (LOC, TACAN/VOR, PAR).

Thanks for the clarification - what you described doesn't sound too different from a normal civilian instrument checkride though, it would just consist of those things you mentioned plus a partial panel approach, and maybe a DME arc.

 

[BACONATOR]

Thanks for the clarification - what you described doesn't sound too different from a normal civilian instrument checkride though, it would just consist of those things you mentioned plus a partial panel approach, and maybe a DME arc.

EXACTLY.... Which is why the FAR change is so gay. I have been fully trained and tested as an IFR pilot in a fixed wing aircraft, yet since I didn't get a NATOPS instrument checkride in it, I don't get an IA ticket... bullshit. Hence why I may go VTs or C-12s for my shore tour.

 

[RobLyman]

EXACTLY.... Which is why the FAR change is so gay. I have been fully trained and tested as an IFR pilot in a fixed wing aircraft, yet since I didn't get a NATOPS instrument checkride in it, I don't get an IA ticket... bullshit. Hence why I may go VTs or C-12s for my shore tour.

You might try a Navy flying club to pickup the IA and do an FRS tour to get your CFI/CFII helicopter. I've done a few commercial instrument airplane add ons for Army guys, and it doesn't take that much time or money. Their biggest hurdle is the landing flare. For you all you would need to do is a few warmup instrument flights and a checkride. You might need a written test too. I'd have to check part 61 to be sure. At any rate, the effort required to add the IA would be miniscule and not worth considering when choosing your shore tour. The type of time you want to accumulate, and maybe the possibility of adding a multi-engine land rating would be bigger factors. Of course career enhancement would be more important than any of that if you are staying in.

For what its worth, I can definitely confirm an FRS tour will get you a CFI helicopter. It might get you a CFII helicopter too. I already had CFI/CFII airplane. I took my HSL-40 paperwork and $40 to a DPE and walked out with a CFI/CFII helicopter added to my certificate. No test required.

 

[BACONATOR]

You might try a Navy flying club to pickup the IA and do an FRS tour to get your CFI/CFII helicopter. I've done a few commercial instrument airplane add ons for Army guys, and it doesn't take that much time or money. Their biggest hurdle is the landing flare. For you all you would need to do is a few warmup instrument flights and a checkride. You might need a written test too. I'd have to check part 61 to be sure. At any rate, the effort required to add the IA would be miniscule and not worth considering when choosing your shore tour. The type of time you want to accumulate, and maybe the possibility of adding a multi-engine land rating would be bigger factors. Of course career enhancement would be more important than any of that if you are staying in.

For what its worth, I can definitely confirm an FRS tour will get you a CFI helicopter. It might get you a CFII helicopter too. I already had CFI/CFII airplane. I took my HSL-40 paperwork and $40 to a DPE and walked out with a CFI/CFII helicopter added to my certificate. No test required.

That is exactly what I'm considering with choosing those tours.

 

[Jim123]

I think I found the right instruction:

nstrument Rating Practical Test Standards for Airplane, Helicopter, and Powered Lift (FAA-S-8081-4E with Change 1)
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/test_standards/media/faa-s-8081-4e.pdf

Just about everything in there is the same things we train for, but I found a biggie that SNAs don't do in their T-34 the instrument check: land. (Although I definitely remember ccx instrument flights when I landed, those just weren't the checkride.)

AREAS OF OPERATION
VI. AREA OF OPERATION: INSTRUMENT APPROACH
PROCEDURES
E TASK: LANDING FROM A STRAIGHT-IN OR CIRCLING
APPROACH
5. Maintains positive aircraft control throughout the complete
landing maneuver. [emhpasis added]


Anyone else feel free to correct me, but as I read the instruction this one looks pretty hard to get around. It's been a while since I flew the T-34 too.

 

[BACONATOR]

I think I found the right instruction:

nstrument Rating Practical Test Standards for Airplane, Helicopter, and Powered Lift (FAA-S-8081-4E with Change 1)
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/test_standards/media/faa-s-8081-4e.pdf

Just about everything in there is the same things we train for, but I found a biggie that SNAs don't do in their T-34 the instrument check: land. (Although I definitely remember ccx instrument flights when I landed, those just weren't the checkride.)

AREAS OF OPERATION
VI. AREA OF OPERATION: INSTRUMENT APPROACH
PROCEDURES
E TASK: LANDING FROM A STRAIGHT-IN OR CIRCLING
APPROACH
5. Maintains positive aircraft control throughout the complete
landing maneuver. [emhpasis added]


Anyone else feel free to correct me, but as I read the instruction this one looks pretty hard to get around. It's been a while since I flew the T-34 too.

You're missing the point. As military aviators, our equivalency isn't a 1-for-1 with the PTS for civilian certificates. It is simply "your military training/experience gets you XYZ", so not hitting ONE of the wickets for a certificate means nothing. It is simply the change in the FARs which requires a NATOPS instrument checkride in a T/M/S to get a specific instrument rating which screws us. I don't remember being tested on chandelles in the T-34 on a checkride either, but I got my commercial.

 

[Jim123]

"your military training/experience gets you XYZ"

Ahh, got it. Think "big picture."

 

[Gatordev]

For what its worth, I can definitely confirm an FRS tour will get you a CFI helicopter. It might get you a CFII helicopter too. I already had CFI/CFII airplane. I took my HSL-40 paperwork and $40 to a DPE and walked out with a CFI/CFII helicopter added to my certificate. No test required.

When did you do this? I have a feeling w/ the new instructor equivalency exam, being able to do this might not be as easy now, especially when having to deal w/ Orlando's FSDO. It would be awesome if I was way wrong though.

 

[insanebikerboy]

(1) Passed an instrument proficiency check by a U.S. Armed Force in the aircraft category for the instrument rating sought; and (2) Received authorization from a U.S. Armed Force to conduct IFR flights on Federal airways in that aircraft category and class for the instrument rating sought.

EXACTLY.... Which is why the FAR change is so gay. I have been fully trained and tested as an IFR pilot in a fixed wing aircraft, yet since I didn't get a NATOPS instrument checkride in it, I don't get an IA ticket... bullshit.

I think the part I bolded is why the FAA has changed their mind and doesn't give the instrument airplane anymore. In primary you never receive authorization from the Navy, i.e. sign for the aircraft, for an instrument flight. That's a big difference as compared to the nav solos in advanced.

 

[phrogdriver]

I still have to take my logbook to the FSDO to get my "powered lift" rating added. Some fat bunch of good that'll do me, but oh well....

 

[RobLyman]

When did you do this? I have a feeling w/ the new instructor equivalency exam, being able to do this might not be as easy now, especially when having to deal w/ Orlando's FSDO. It would be awesome if I was way wrong though.

I did this the day after the new rules went into effect. (Last October). It may be slightly different for you. I had my civilian CFI/CFII/MEI already. I called the Orlando FSDO and they told me all of the DPEs had been sent a package already prepping for the change. Duane Brown did mine in Jax. He's a good guy, ex Navy P-3 guy.

If you do not have a civilian CFI, I believe you do need to take a written exam. I haven't seen it but the CH-47 guy in the office next to me bought a prep book for it. It has a lot of Fundamentals of Instruction (FOI) stuff in it. The concepts are nothing new to you as a Navy instructor, but the terms are a bit different. I would definitely grab the FAA's FOI book or at least a study guide

 

[Gatordev]

I did this the day after the new rules went into effect. (Last October). It may be slightly different for you. I had my civilian CFI/CFII/MEI already. I called the Orlando FSDO and they told me all of the DPEs had been sent a package already prepping for the change. Duane Brown did mine in Jax. He's a good guy, ex Navy P-3 guy.

If you do not have a civilian CFI, I believe you do need to take a written exam. I haven't seen it but the CH-47 guy in the office next to me bought a prep book for it. It has a lot of Fundamentals of Instruction (FOI) stuff in it. The concepts are nothing new to you as a Navy instructor, but the terms are a bit different. I would definitely grab the FAA's FOI book or at least a study guide

Ahh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah, no CFI/I for me right now and I just haven't had the time to get stuff together to go take the test and visit ORL w/ the paperwork. Let me add that to my list... I have a feeling it won't get done until after deployment, unfortunately.