Fallen Angels - Admin Seps for all?

[scottwith1t]

ya'll changed the thread title?

 

[H20man]

Haven't heard anything about NPQ... I failed depth perception and got the NAMI Whammy.

I put my package in for SNFO no problem, and have not heard anything about admin sep or other community.

My buddy who got the NAMI Whammy a couple of weeks ago also put in his package for SNFO and he hasn't heard any of this either.

Looking forward to still be in aviation, but if the Navy lets me go so be it. I have plenty of choices in the maritime industry.

Sounds like the rumor mill is churning away.

 

[Clux4]

I knew a girl in API who went to Annapolis, got down to P-cola, and found out she was in fact anthroed out of everything. Bye bye. Shoulda put SWO down for selection, I guess.

Thanks taxpayers, free education without paying sh!t for it.

 

[wingsB4rings]

At least on the jet side, 35 was the minimum without a waiver from the Commodore for Navy types or HQMC for Marines. I knew of one Marine who never failed a flight, qualled at the boat, but was attrited when it became a mathematical impossibility for him to raise his NSS to a 35+. Apparently the Marine Corps just about never gives that waiver.

What in God's name are you doing wrong if you never get an unsat and still can't maintain a 35? Did he just walk a fine line until it was too late? I knew a couple pilots who downed a few flights in each phase of training and still came out with a low to mid 40s.

 

[Gatordev]

What in God's name are you doing wrong if you never get an unsat and still can't maintain a 35? Did he just walk a fine line until it was too late? I knew a couple pilots who downed a few flights in each phase of training and still came out with a low to mid 40s.

I would guess because he got all averages or less. You can be a straight "Average" pilot and not wing because you need so many "Aboves" to meet the minimum GPA. It's not the MPTS system.

I know one or two folks I got winged with were sweating that in the HTs. As it turned out, they had no reason to, but everyone wanted to make sure they at least had the minimum number of Aboves to wing.

 

[VulcanRider]

Thanks taxpayers, free education without paying sh!t for it.

Except the Navy learned from it's mistake in the past and is now requiring people to pay their educations back.
"Your fired...you have no income...now give us back the $150,000"

 

[S.O.B.]

Except the Navy learned from it's mistake in the past and is now requiring people to pay their educations back.
"Your fired...you have no income...now give us back the $150,000"

How does that work?

 

[NozeMan]

Except the Navy learned from it's mistake in the past and is now requiring people to pay their educations back.
"Your fired...you have no income...now give us back the $150,000"

Yeah, you are gonna have to explain that one. Is there actually a case of someone NPQing for pilot and NFO, wasn't allowed to move to another community, then got kicked AND told to pay back their education?

I find this pretty hard to believe. Now if someone got into legal trouble or an unofficer like conduct issue, I can see being kicked out and being held accountable for the costs.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Except the Navy learned from it's mistake in the past and is now requiring people to pay their educations back.
"Your fired...you have no income...now give us back the $150,000"

I'd guess that this is coming via word of mouth? The only time you are generally required to repay the Academy is if you voluntarily resign, or are kicked out because of misconduct. If they are requiring people who are essentially getting RIF'd to repay - a lawyer will surely take their case. After all - the individuals in the cheating scandal of '94 didn't end up repaying shit.

 

[nittany03]

I would guess because he got all averages or less. You can be a straight "Average" pilot and not wing because you need so many "Aboves" to meet the minimum GPA. It's not the MPTS system.

^^ What he said. Also, downing flights is a MUCH bigger deal in the old Navy system than MPTS. Two downs and you go to a board. Three or more and you're flirting with attrition. IIRC you don't get to a board until you've failed a flight 3 times, then two more with designated checkers in MPTS.

I saw guys wing with 2 downs; more than that was usually the beginning of a death spiral. I downed once in Primary Contact under MPTS and still managed to leave with a 63 NSS.

I think there's more rope given for you to pull yourself out of a hole with good performance in the MPTS because you can finish a flight with 20 "aboves" or so, if you rock it. Old way, you get one max, maybe two if you absolutely killed it or your instructor is cool. Which, mathematically, amongst 20-30 graded items can make it hard to catch back up when you're behind.

The fact that "Average" is not, in fact, average is the gayest and most meatheaded aspect of the Navy style of grading.

 

[Casual]

With the MNTS (MPTS is the same, I'm pretty sure), if you unsat two fights in a row, you go to a board (IPC). Also if you fail a single checkride or get a ready room down. I think maybe the main difference is that most people pass their IPC flight and then continue on with training. As long as they don't fail anything else, it's usually not the end of the world.

 

[Morgan81]

I know a few people who got killed when the new NSS computation went into effect, which takes marginal and downed flights into the mix now. From what I understood (which isn't much granted) it basically compressed everyone around the 50 NSS mark (helped the students with low scores but no downs, hurt the studs with high scores especially those who had downs.) Before I spew anymore crap, I'll just say this. It's hard to attrite. Really hard. No one wants to see you fail and as long as you give 100% and listen to your instructors you should be ok. If not, you not being in an aircraft is probably a good thing for yourself as well as the Navy.

 

[FlyBoyd]

It is very easy (and legal) to finish with an NSS below 35 within MPTS. The easiest way is to not meet MIF until you absolutely have to...which is usually the end of block. The main reason guys are finishing so low and not being attrited is due to a lack of understanding of how the system is supposed to work and laziness. Flight Leaders and OPSOs fail to identify these "bottom feeders" and initiate an OPS directed IPC and eventually a Command directed FPC. IPs fail to mark someone as "Marginal" and the trash is passed from there. When a guy completes Primary/Advanced with a low NSS it becomes a financial decision. The "light" may come on later for these guys but bringing another guy all the way through to replace this "widget" is cost prohibitive.

Obviously, there are many variables in what I have said above but this is what I have seen over the last eight years.

 

[VulcanRider]

I'd guess that this is coming via word of mouth?

Sortof, they pulled us in during A-pool and explained how the navy is looking to lose about 260 JO's. Then said that it wasn't like it was in the past. If we DOR, or attrite, then they may try to redesignate us, but don't count on it. And the big kick in the ass was that we would owe money back. They also said that NROTC and Academy grads had the priority to stay in since the Navy invested alot already, and that OCS had the priority to get the boot. But I already know of people who quit, and got the boot from NROTC. Sh!tty deal all around.

The same message is hanging in our ODO office sent out by the commodore as a heads up.

 

[gotta_fly]

And the big kick in the ass was that we would owe money back. They also said that NROTC and Academy grads had the priority to stay in since the Navy invested alot already...

This doesn't exactly make sense, if the Navy is getting the money back why does it matter how much they've invested so far?