FAOs, Attaches, and Aviation

[armada1651]

I did some searching around here but couldn't really find the information I was looking for. Sorry if I overlooked it somehow.

I'm interested in possibly going into the FAO or attache world somewhere well down the road. From what I've gathered, most attache positions are now filled by FAOs and to be eligible to transition to FAO you need to have completed 8 years active duty. I have a few questions on this:

1. How do FAOs and attaches differ? Is the attache post just one billet of several that FAOs fill? What other types positions are available in that field?

2. How does one become a FAO? I imagine you must submit some type of package and I know there's time spent at DLI and in-region learning the language and culture. What types of career choices help make you a solid candidate? Should I seek a graduate degree in a particular field (when it comes time for grad school)? Does previous experience in the region (IA or otherwise) help your competitiveness?

3. Is it difficult to get assigned to a particular region? I.e., do you put in a package to specialize in a specific area or do you become a FAO and then select an area in the same way you select a platform? I ask because I'm most interested in Africa...call me crazy, but I'm fascinated by the continent, the challenges faced there, and the unusual (and innovative) structure and mission of our new AFRICOM.

4. Probably most importantly: how do these types of assignments fit into an aviation career? I've been told that attaches sometimes are tasked with flying the ambassador around as a collateral duty (C-12 or something) - is that common? Does going down the FAO/attache road take you permanently out of the aviation career path and into something entirely different?

I'd really appreciate any input or guidance as to a good source of information. Thanks in advance and sorry this was so long!

P.S. I realize any of this is in the distant future for me and at this point flight school is my top priority; I'm just a curious ensign poking around for some information.

 

[lmnop]

I can't speak intelligently about FAO, but I've been checking out the attache gig. The NPC site has some good info about the program. If you log in via BOL you can check out the billet list which includes eligibile designators, additional quals (C-12, etc), paygrade and fill dates.
http://www.npc.navy.mil/Officer/AttacheAssignments/

 

[zab1001]

1. How do FAOs and attaches differ? Is the attache post just one billet of several that FAOs fill? What other types positions are available in that field?

Not familiar enough with the duties of Attaches to answer this. FAOs fulfill duties that require extensive knowledge regarding a particular region. Billets include specific nation Naval Section Chief, staff duties, assignments to COCOMs in various functions, International Programs, etc.

2. How does one become a FAO? I imagine you must submit some type of package and I know there's time spent at DLI and in-region learning the language and culture. What types of career choices help make you a solid candidate? Should I seek a graduate degree in a particular field (when it comes time for grad school)? Does previous experience in the region (IA or otherwise) help your competitiveness?

Apply for resdesignation. This will be your new designator. You will be in a new community with a new career path. "New-build FAOs" are sent to NPS for an MA in National Security Affairs, specializing in the region that they will be assigned to. If you do not already speak the language you need to the standards the Navy requires, you will go to DLI after NPS.

Previous experience: they're putting out that "extensive" regional experience is highly favored. They also have specified that this does not include IAs or regular deployments, and is considered to be in excess of 1 year.

Example, I did a 3 year flying PEP tour and that was what got me in.

3. Is it difficult to get assigned to a particular region? I.e., do you put in a package to specialize in a specific area or do you become a FAO and then select an area in the same way you select a platform? I ask because I'm most interested in Africa...call me crazy, but I'm fascinated by the continent, the challenges faced there, and the unusual (and innovative) structure and mission of our new AFRICOM.

You apply to be a FAO, not for a region. Now, if you have "extensive" experience in a particular region and speak an applicable language, it will play into where you are assigned.

4. Probably most importantly: how do these types of assignments fit into an aviation career? I've been told that attaches sometimes are tasked with flying the ambassador around as a collateral duty (C-12 or something) - is that common? Does going down the FAO/attache road take you permanently out of the aviation career path and into something entirely different?

Yes, you are out of aviation, you are now a FAO. There are limited flying positions available, nothing to count on. They do track who has flight experience and in what platform.

 

[armada1651]

Thank you both.

Another couple questions based on those responses: For an aviator going FAO, is the redes usually/always right after your initial commitment, or can it be done further down the road? Or is it bad for your FAO career to not get in on the ground floor as a senior O-3? Also, how does a Naval aviator go about building "extensive experience" in Africa aside from a Djibouti IA (since IAs apparently don't count as far as they are concerned)? Shoot for an AFRICOM shore tour? Do we do PEP with any nations over there (South Africa maybe)? Those are probably pretty obscure questions, just wondering if you or anyone else around here might know. Thanks again for the help!

 

[bunk22]

About 2 months ago I spent about an hour on the phone with the FAO placement officer...might have been the detailer, not sure. He was an O-5 type. Also, the old Training Wing 5 stucon just went FAO and is now in Africa. I don't have exact answers for you but you apply, there is a board and if accepted, you are now designated an FAO. Some of the training is intensive prior to being assinged a position. Sometimes you have to learn the language and with the other required training, it takes 18 months to prepare for deployment. Some of the jobs do require prior 1310's. Those are billets in which the FAO will fly C-12's. This CDR told me they are going to redesignate prior 1310's to a specific FAO pilot designator instead of asking for 1310's to fill the billet. Same, same, just a different designator.

 

[zab1001]

If I remember correctly, you can't apply for redesignation until 1 year before your post-winging aviation commitment is up.

It's always better to get in on the ground floor.

"Extensive experience" - opportunities just come up. Maybe a tour with 5th Fleet Staff, and Embassy position (they randomly pop up), or PEP. Tell your front office you want to go overseas, but be warned, that means they can send you where they want. There are no aviation PEP tours to Africa.

edit: a shore tour with AFRICOM would help you immensely.

As far as C-12s, those gigs usually go to senior guys (which I think bunk was alluding to), so don't count on it. But stranger things have happened.

 

[Flash]

I wouldn't put too much thought into the C-12's. There are only a few of them, some of the locations are not all that great and they may or may not be there when you would be up for FAO in 10-15 years.

 

[Clux4]

Funny someone asked about the Naval Attache Program. I was looking at a few options this past week.Here is the line to the Marine Corps Intelligence Department. They pretty much have a selection process and from what I read on the site, it looks as if only those in the 02 field are eligible to apply.
Now there is a BIG difference between FAO/RAO and Defense Attache. In a few words,the FAO/RAO could be considered Socialites while the Attache could be considered a Spy.
All this is definitely USMC info. I am sure the USN has their way of going about it.

 

[Flash]

Now there is a BIG difference between FAO/RAO and Defense Attache. In a few words,the FAO/RAO could be considered Socialites while the Attache could be considered a Spy. All this is definitely USMC info. I am sure the USN has their way of going about it.

Socialite? Are you sure about that?

Your comparisons are much too generalized for what both jobs actually encompass.

 

[zab1001]

Socialite? Are you sure about that?

Yeah that's some funny stuff. I'll be sure to relay that to the USMC FAOs in my classes...

 

[Gatordev]

If I remember correctly, you can't apply for redesignation until 1 year before your post-winging aviation commitment is up.

It's always better to get in on the ground floor.

"Extensive experience" - opportunities just come up. Maybe a tour with 5th Fleet Staff, and Embassy position (they randomly pop up), or PEP. Tell your front office you want to go overseas, but be warned, that means they can send you where they want. There are no aviation PEP tours to Africa.

edit: a shore tour with AFRICOM would help you immensely.

As far as C-12s, those gigs usually go to senior guys (which I think bunk was alluding to), so don't count on it. But stranger things have happened.

There's an IP in VT-6 now who was an attache (?). He's a helo guy that was in the right place at the right time and ended up flying C-12s along w/ doing many other things. I don't really remember the details of "how," but basically everything fell into place for him while he was working his orders (multiple times...rolled into another tour flying C-12s as a disassociated). On the minus side, he was gone A LOT, but if you're cool with that, sounded like he got a lot of cool experiences

 

[Clux4]

Yeah that's some funny stuff. I'll be sure to relay that to the USMC FAOs in my classes...

Common, I know you are looking forward to the embassy cocktails. Is that nort what diplomats are known for.
I am sure the USMC FAO's already know that. You mean the Navy is not on such program?

Please educate the OP.

 

[DanMa1156]

Socialite? Are you sure about that?

Yessssssss, you heard the man right. Now, hiphip, carry on boy and let the real gentleman do the speaking here, right-o.

Otherwise, great thread guys, very interesting opportunities they really don't tell Mids about.

 

[bunk22]

There's an IP in VT-6 now who was an attache (?). He's a helo guy that was in the right place at the right time and ended up flying C-12s along w/ doing many other things. I don't really remember the details of "how," but basically everything fell into place for him while he was working his orders (multiple times...rolled into another tour flying C-12s as a disassociated). On the minus side, he was gone A LOT, but if you're cool with that, sounded like he got a lot of cool experiences

He was in Pakistan for 18 months but said he didn't do much flying. He did however fly and was able to pick his orders on the backside. I think he got to come home a few times a year as well.

 

[Gatordev]

He was in Pakistan for 18 months but said he didn't do much flying. He did however fly and was able to pick his orders on the backside. I think he got to come home a few times a year as well.

I knew there was a dusty place he was for a while, but couldn't remember how it fit in.

Yeah, his travel was not a problem, from what he was telling me. I don't remember when exactly he did it (it's all run together), but he was also a liason w/ the husbanding agent in the AOR. From what he told me, he lived quite well while on those trips.