Female NFOs/Pilots

[Brett327]

Alright. Thanks for the advice. I’ll go all up and down the hall at the VTs and talk about sluts, dicks, and pussies. I’m sure the instructor cadre will commend me for my professionalism. When you’re in the fleet, I’m sure it’s different. Not at a training command and not for some prospective candidate on a professional forum.

My point was there’s a proper and professional way to pose the question, like, for instance: I have some questions on gender and service in the military. As a woman, I’ve heard negative stereotypes about females serving in the military blah blah blah tell me more about your experiences. No mention of sluts, pussies, etc.

I would hope you can see the difference between proclaiming something aloud in a P-way and making a post on AW. Obviously discretion applies to the given context, but your post seemed overly squeamish. While I probably wouldn't use those words around the folks I work with, I would honestly appreciate the unvarnished edginess if I heard one of my female JOs talking that way, and I don't think anyone would bat an eye if that happened in any fleet readyroom. Just giving you my perspective... yours may differ slightly, and that's... OK.

I finally got called an ass by HAL. I feel kinda warm and fuzzy inside that my stupidity finally made it onto his scope.

Join the club. You're in good company.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Join the club. You're in good company.

@picklesuit Here’s one of the ones I was talking about....

 

[FinkUFreaky]

Alright. Thanks for the advice. I’ll go all up and down the hall at the VTs and talk about sluts, dicks, and pussies. I’m sure the instructor cadre will commend me for my professionalism. When you’re in the fleet, I’m sure it’s different. Not at a training command and not for some prospective candidate on a professional forum.

My point was there’s a proper and professional way to pose the question, like, for instance: I have some questions on gender and service in the military. As a woman, I’ve heard negative stereotypes about females serving in the military blah blah blah tell me more about your experiences. No mention of sluts, pussies, etc.

I'd actually agree with Brett here; I didn't personally find their post in any way offensive, they were asking a question. I personally find the question a little bit silly but that's not at the fault of the poster (her experiences growing up were surely somewhat different to mine, and more importantly, I find a lot of student (or prospective student) questions quite silly knowing what I know now, as I'm sure many of mine were at that stage in life to those in my current). I've been in "their shoes" in regards to being ignorant about how things mostly actually are plenty of times. I'm sure I still am about plenty of things, and while I have opinions, I know they aren't necessarily "the right answer."

Being professional in the VT-halls as a student is not the same as ready room banter is not the same as posting (thoughtful, to include questions previously unanswered) discussion on this wonderful site. And I'd agree that asteriks are not required for "grown-up" words on this site; I doubt any children will get their first exposure here.

If your main point was to be professional in most aspects of your job as a Naval Aviator, then good on you. But there should always be some room for less than that (at least as a JO, when it makes sense), and honestly in the way the question was phrased there was nothing whatsoever unprofessional about the question. Big difference between someone saying "most military women are sluts or lesbians" and "I heard some people say that most military women are sluts or lesbians.... is it true that most people think this?" And if these words alone offend, I hope being told to release weapons on other humans don't.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

I'd actually agree with Brett here; I didn't personally find their post in any way offensive, they were asking a question. I personally find the question a little bit silly but that's not at the fault of the poster (her experiences growing up were surely somewhat different to mine, and more importantly, I find a lot of student (or prospective student) questions quite silly knowing what I know now, as I'm sure many of mine were at that stage in life to those in my current). I've been in "their shoes" in regards to being ignorant about how things mostly actually are plenty of times. I'm sure I still am about plenty of things, and while I have opinions, I know they aren't necessarily "the right answer."

Being professional in the VT-halls as a student is not the same as ready room banter is not the same as posting (thoughtful, to include questions previously unanswered) discussion on this wonderful site. And I'd agree that asteriks are not required for "grown-up" words on this site; I doubt any children will get their first exposure here.

If your main point was to be professional in most aspects of your job as a Naval Aviator, then good on you. But there should always be some room for less than that (at least as a JO, when it makes sense), and honestly in the way the question was phrased there was nothing whatsoever unprofessional about the question. Big difference between someone saying "most military women are sluts or lesbians" and "I heard some people say that most military women are sluts or lesbians.... is it true that most people think this?" And if these words alone offend, I hope being told to release weapons on other humans don't.

*doesn''t"

 

[GhostlySeas]

When they first started putting women on carriers (nukes) and soon after followed by other rates there was this issue too and it took several years to overcome, there will always be women that are poor sailors just like there will always be men that are poor sailors, the first several groups of women nukes we rec'd it was who will get pregnant and who won't, the reason they kept saying that is about half the female nukes were getting pregnant before being on the ship for a year, maybe poor preparation in the pipeline to prepare them for sea duty, who knows. I will say after the adjustment period things changed and I had some outstanding women that worked for me.

I definitely think it may be of an advantage to me that I don't want to get pregnant- ever. I can certainly see the logistical hardships it takes to integrate boats and ships. I started out my career wanting to be a submariner on a Fast Attack and well, quickly learned about how that isn't currently possible. Hoping that in the future it may be but perusing SWO instead.

Out of curiosity, do you think Destroyers or Carriers have a higher percentage of female officers?

 

[Hair Warrior]

Out of curiosity, do you think Destroyers or Carriers have a higher percentage of female officers?

If they do, I wouldn’t think it’s intentional. I would think it’s an artifact of a system that until recently did not allow women on submarines or in SEAL/EOD, so they had to serve in other fields. Those restrictions are now lifted but obviously there are no female O5/O6 submariners, SEALs, or EOD officers yet. That will take time.

 

[Sam I am]

I'll chime in on this one...

1. just to reiterate: your friend really is an asshole.
2. calling out the OP as looking for attention is such a brown-noser, douchie move. If you don't know, you don't know.
3. No branch of service has the market cornered on misogynist/sexist assholes.
4. I've encountered a couple fellow officer's who happen to be female and slept around. I've also encountered male officers who slept/screwed around and it will catch up with them one way or another.
5. The BEST, I mean the BEST SNA (Student Naval Aviator for the uninitiated) I ever flew with in 8 years of being an Instructor Pilot was a female Marine. That young lady had her $h!t in and out of the cockpit so wired it was incredible.
6. Worst SNA(s) I ever flew with was tie between a male Marine and a male Coastie.
7. I have several family members both female and male who are military officers and we've talked a lot about our experiences. Having two daughters, if either were to express a desire to serve I would probably steer them Army, AF, Navy, Coastie, and Marine respectively, but ultimately their decision. Right now, my oldest is talking Flight Doc.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I definitely think it may be of an advantage to me that I don't want to get pregnant- ever. I can certainly see the logistical hardships it takes to integrate boats and ships. I started out my career wanting to be a submariner on a Fast Attack and well, quickly learned about how that isn't currently possible. Hoping that in the future it may be but perusing SWO instead.

Out of curiosity, do you think Destroyers or Carriers have a higher percentage of female officers?

Carriers have more flexibility, but a SWO that is looking at a career doesn't want to go to a carrier.

 

[Jim123]

Out of curiosity, do you think Destroyers or Carriers have a higher percentage of female officers?

Destroyers (and cruisers, frigates, any surface combatants) when they do have female officers will tend to have around a certain number that makes the berthing and heads practical. On the destroyer I was on about twenty years ago, the wardroom had around half a dozen females out of twenty-ish (that's not including a handful of pilots on the helicopter detachment). At one point, I think six were in the six-person room and two were in a three-person stateroom. I don't remember if the female head in that part of the ship had one or two showers, although one would have been adequate. Later on I was on an amphibious assault ship (looks like a small aircraft carrier) and the male-female proportions were similar, but it was a much larger crew plus a lot of cats and dogs that embark on one of those... and the Marines.

Too fewer than that, if a head is set aside for female-only then the male head can get crowded; too many more than that and the female-only head could get crowded too. Practically speaking, that's probably the biggest consideration for how many girls or boys they assign to a ship, and it's not really that big of a deal to figure it out and make it work. Carriers are more flexible because they're so much bigger.

Enlisted male and female mix works sort of similar, but the crew berthing spaces might be a few 60 rack bays each served by a 6× shower/sink/toilet head, or as small as about 20 racks with its own 2× head, or something in between. It just depends on the design of the ship.

Back to O-country, if something is broken in one of those heads and it's taking a lot time to repair it then the protocol works the same way anywhere else in life when the only ladies' room is closed for repairs (or the only men's room). The ship might do hours for male and female showers, you can hang a sign on the door for occupied male/female, you knock loudly and announce yourself as male/female on deck, there are a few ways to make it work.

Rest assured, all that stuff is old hat and has been for some time.