Fighter comparisons

[Steve Wilkins]

All this fighter stuff is great, but you just haven't lived until you've done 30+ knots in a cruiser with a left rudder over full, practicing the Anderson turn for man overboard drills.

 

[Vandy7]

Originally posted by Ryoukai
Regarding the letter posted by Pat, what does the speaker mean when he says, "could barely get to a merge because of bent systems."?

That we in Tomcat-land don't exactly have the world's greatest short range radar to start worth, and that the problem is usually made worse because the radar often won't be working. Briefed a SFWT Level III 2vX 6 different times on my nugget cruise--went down on deck or airborne every time. The F-14 was just designed before maintainability was really stressed that much, and 30 years on, its only worse. Legacy Hornets are starting to feel our pain, especially the earlier lots.

 

[webmaster]

Originally posted by Patmack18
But again, I wasn't there, nor were any of the guys that I hear Monday morning quarterbacking, so whose to say the deisicion was a poor one? It's easy to critique someones desicion when you've got your couch and all day to think about it.

This one has been beaten to death in my community of course, the whole "what if" scenario.... but everyone walked away and came home, where conventional (VP) P3s have successfully ditched (loss of all four engines and boost out ditch off of Oman, scary story if there ever was one), but who knows what would have happened with a VQ bird at water impact....

 

[Ryoukai]

Originally posted by Vandy7

That we in Tomcat-land don't exactly have the world's greatest short range radar to start worth, and that the problem is usually made worse because the radar often won't be working. Briefed a SFWT Level III 2vX 6 different times on my nugget cruise--went down on deck or airborne every time. The F-14 was just designed before maintainability was really stressed that much, and 30 years on, its only worse. Legacy Hornets are starting to feel our pain, especially the earlier lots.

How do the D models do with these problems?

 

[phrogdriver]

The most valid point was made by an earlier post. The Russians always seem to be building some new superweapon that will allegedly defeat anything we have. I've heard that in regards to AA systems (the 2S6), helos (the Ka-50), and now fighters. Remember, the MiG-25 was supposed to set the world on its ear, too. Things didn't work out that way. Like any defense company does, their manufacturers exaggerate the effectiveness of their upcoming products, except that MOST of their stuff turns out to be a Sgt York AA gun. There's a big difference between a prototype that can rock an airshow and a combat-effective weapon. A lot of these weapons the Russians themselves can't afford, and the export sales never materialize, either.

 

[wildflyin69]

I'll take 'em all down with some firecrackers I attach to the wings of my cessna...

 

[Vandy7]

Originally posted by Ryoukai

Originally posted by Vandy7

That we in Tomcat-land don't exactly have the world's greatest short range radar to start worth, and that the problem is usually made worse because the radar often won't be working. Briefed a SFWT Level III 2vX 6 different times on my nugget cruise--went down on deck or airborne every time. The F-14 was just designed before maintainability was really stressed that much, and 30 years on, its only worse. Legacy Hornets are starting to feel our pain, especially the earlier lots.

How do the D models do with these problems?

Same. Parts availability has historicaly always been worse, because the program was cnx'd in early 90's after only 55 or so had been built. And although "upgraded", the jets radar was still built upon a requirement to engage Soviet bombers coming over the horizon so as to defend the battlegroup. Thus, the Short Range Radar could be better. And tbe RIO still runs everything in back--even though by the late 80's, when the APG-71 was being designed, techology had advanced to the point that a lot more automated modes could have been put in, as with the F-15, 16, and 18. But perhaps that would have put the RIO rice bowl in jeopardy, as the community at that time was strictly air-to-air, and avoided air-to-ground like the plague. More automation would have left the RIO with less to do (at that time--now we are very busy with the Air-to-ground work)--and less to do means less power. Perfect example of how entrenched interests can often skew things away from the optimum.

 

[Vandy7]

Originally posted by phrogdriver
A lot of these weapons the Russians themselves can't afford, and the export sales never materialize, either.

True true true. The planes flying today--F-15, F-14, F-18, F-16 are already two generations old. The F-22 is a generation old--the design work started in the 70's, the flyoff between the YF-22/23 was in the early 90's. I've often said that if a "World War II" type extended war broke out, all the jets that are flying today in front-line service would be gone after a year or two (aka the Hurricane, P-40, P-35, etc.), that the F-22/F-35 types would take over once numbers started to come on line, and that UCAV's would be what the war ended with--assuming space based common reentry vehicles and hypersonic bombers skipping on the edge of the atmosphere didn't totally redefine the issue, which is also a possibility. Same applies to Surface to Air Missile (SAM) systems--its just no one can afford to field the best stufff except us, because of cost. Nevertheless, the stuff that is out there is not even close to what is technologically on the cutting edge. Not that I would really know, as I fly in an aircraft that began test the year I was born (1968).

 

[paikea]

time has a horrable effect on aging planes though, and there is no way you'll see an A model Tomcat going against a MiG-29 and come out on top, even with an NFWS graduate in it's cockpit (maybe a D could still get lucky

Not true. Before the Kosovo war Lt. Marcus "Lupe" Lopez of VF-41 took down a German-flown MiG-29 during a training exercise flying an F-14A. The guy driving the Fulcrum was one of the best MiG-29 pilots in the world. A burly senior German officer call-signed "Hooter."