I have to say, I'm a little skeptical of the media making Russia out to be the bad guy in this. At least wholly the offending party...this Ossetia is in the same region as Chechnya, and a lot of those people down there are not happy with each other. Some of the reports coming out of there have the Georgians allegedly killing civilians, there are some of the "ethnic cleansing" accusations going around, and if Russia really "just wanted Georgia" why didn't they do it when they were retaking Chechnya? They have the military power to do about anything they want in the region, and we won't stop them...
Georgia has enjoyed a tenuous democracy, they hopefully won't overstep their bounds trying to force their way into Nato.
I agree you you picklesuit. I'm not so sure Russia is the 'bad guy' here. It definitely sounds like they were provoked (many of the people in Southern Otessia are Russian citizens, at least according to Fox, iirc). They've also been in the area as 'peace keepers' for some tim
Also, what's the deal with Georgia trying to get into NATO? Are the Russian's opposed to this because it'd drag the EU and the US into a conflict if they ever tried to retake the area?
One of the reasons that Russia has an interest here is that there is a significant minority of ethnic Russian people living in the embattled areas. These ethnic Russians speak Russian and have ties to the motherland and are seen by Georgians as a separate and undesirable group of people. They're treated as second class citizens and their rights are oftentimes trampled upon, so it's east to understand why they want to break away from Georgia and have solicited the help of Russia.
Brett
Russia is definitely the bad guy here in this situation. Georgia is no innocent and has definitely done some provocative things over the past few months, but this is definitely a case of big bad 'Mother Russia' throwing it's weight around against a part of the former USSR that they think never should have been let go.
The fight right now is over South Ossetia, which is an integral part of the Georgian state and has only stayed nominally independent because of Russian 'peacekeepers' (using the term
very loosely). The Ossetians are not ethnic Russians but are ethnically distinct from other Caucasians and Georgians, and speak a language derived from Farsi. The have historically looked to Mother Russia for protection and as an ally. They even helped the Soviets take over the short lived Georgians state after Russian revolution.
And just to make it clear, Chechnya was/is an integral part of Russia, not an independent state like Georgia. And it took the Russian 4-5 years and two wars to take it back. Really shows how far they have sunk in terms of military capability. While we will probably not intervene now, if Russia attempted to occupy Georgia completely it would probably not stand. They are probably smart enough not to do so either.
At the end of the Cold War there was fighting between the Ossetians and Georgians and the Russians stepped in and 'mediated' the conflict. Since then South Ossetia and Abkhazia have been protected and helped by the Russians, who are more than happy to keep an uppity former part of their empire in its place. It was only well after Georgia became an independent state that Russia offered passports to South Ossetians and Abkhazians, so it is very disingenuous to claim that the South Ossetians are 'Russian' citizens.
And to take Russian claims of 'ethnic cleansing' is almost laughable, I wouldn't trust a Russian official nowadays as far as I could throw them. The fact that Fox News and others report this at face value, along with 'ethnic cleansing' claims exemplifies
very poor reporting. Ossetians actually forced many Georgians (Abkhazians too, who were condemned by the UN and OSCE for doing so) who were resident in South Ossetia out after the conflicts in the early 90's, and I imagine that Ossetians are not being 'cleansed' but are fleeing the very heavy fighting. I would if I were not fighting.
And to note again, Georgia is definitely some shirking violet that is completely innocent. But outside of the Baltic states, it is the most democratic of all the former Soviet republics that has had free and fair elections, and a truly democratically elected President and parliament. Their President might be a little hot-headed sometimes, but has consistently pulled his country back from the brink of going to war several times in the past few months. This is in the face of blatant Russian and South Ossetian provocations that would have been responded to by most other countries as a declaration of war.
All in all, the Georgians are on the right in this conflict. Russia has acted an aggressor, along with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, for several years and would love to put its former territory in its place, which it may do. Georgia has been a good ally in more ways than one, its troops constitute the third largest contingent of troops in Iraq now, and it is a free country on the border of one that becomes increasingly autocratic by the day.
(gets harder to tell everyday no?) are in the wrong on this one, although both sides have mud on their faces. That said, the though of intervention in this, perhaps even as part of a UN operation terrifies me. Ugly all day...
