Fighting in Georgia

[OUSOONER]

I think Georgia have the right to deal with any type of unrest in their own borders. If they start rolling into South Ossetia and committing war crimes, then it's for the international community to decide punishment, not Russia. If the South Ossetians wanted to be Russians that bad, hell move just a little further north.

It's like France attacking Canada if Quebec was trying to break away from Canada and the Canadians rolled in to restore order.It is in their borders they can/should be able to do as they see fit within the law.

Russia was looking for any reason to flood the border and now it shows the Russians true intentions. They are giving that little extra kick to the gut "just for old time sake", now that Georgia has pulled out apparently.

 

[Flash]

Wow...didn't know much about that region...thanks for the info Flash. How do YOU know so much? I can barely keep up with current news most days, I can only get so much history in (like 1 book a month)...

I am well read, what else do you think civil servants do with their time? Especially when it is their job to know about such stuff......

so i wonder who attacked first? the russians say it was the georgians. the georgians say it was the south ossetians. flash says it was the russians. so in a day and age when everyone has a cellcam, even goatherders and beggars, why can't we get a straight answer to this question?????

I don't ever think I said the Russians attacked first, I just said Russia was the 'aggressor'. And even in this day in age, with cell phones and the internets, we may never know who attacked first.

This isn't rocket-science for any of us. The Georgian government [apparently] foolishly used military force to try to re-take a province within its own nation that has been aided & occupied by Russian forces for 16 years........I would guess that Putin's strategic goal in all this is to demonstrate to all the other former soviet republics that this is Russia's area of dominance in the world and that they should not persist in a silly atempt to suck-up to the West & make alliances with countries like the U.S. It seems to be working so far.

Actually, if this had been planned by the Georgians they probably could have taken South Ossetia rather quickly. There is only one or two routes between South Ossetia and Russia, and if the Georgians were quick enough to cut them off then the Ossetians and the Russians would have largely been SOL.

But this happened so rapidly from small border clashes to open war, in a span of a day or two, it really did not give the Georgians any time to prepare for open conflict. This was probably not planned by either side, it was largely an accident waiting to happen. And yes, even with the rising tensions, it really snowballed that quickly. And while both sides have been preparing for this kind of eventuality for the past 5-15 years, this a perfect example of how some localized and minor actions quickly spun out of control and broke out into open war.

Almost the exact same thing happened in the Israeli-Lebanon war in 2006, when a small firefight and kidnapping sparked a larger war that both sides had been preparing for but no one had planned happening then.

 

[scoober78]

Where do we fall in all of this? With mother russia up to her bad old tricks, are we going to sit by the way and let her start gobbling up her former satellites?

Keep in mind that it seems pretty clear that Russia isn't going to "retake" them in a purely millitary way. Despite their recent military action, they are using primarily politcal and sociological means to draw the republics back to them. Keep in mind that the Russian justification for this invasion was that the Ossetians were "Russians", and by that they mean ethnic Russians carrying, as pointed out Russian passports. There was a concerted effort to get Russian passports into these peoples hands...to "make" Russians out of them. You'll see this again. A better parallel than the early Soviet expansions would be the Axis powers in WWII. This looks alot like the German annexation of Austria and Czechoslovakia.

In short though, to answer your question....Yes. I have a VERY hard time seeing us committing any real combat asset to this conflict. Just ain't going to happen.

 

[jarhead]

Russia confirms they lost a Su-25 & Tu-22. source ... use google to translate.

S/F

 

[invertedflyer]

Keep in mind that it seems pretty clear that Russia isn't going to "retake" them in a purely millitary way. Despite their recent military action, they are using primarily politcal and sociological means to draw the republics back to them. Keep in mind that the Russian justification for this invasion was that the Ossetians were "Russians", and by that they mean ethnic Russians carrying, as pointed out Russian passports.

Yep, this is a classic example of Irridentism, and with the iron curtain to reinforce it. It definitely reminds me of Serbia/Bosnia in the mid-90s.

 

[scoolbubba]

In short though, to answer your question....Yes. I have a VERY hard time seeing us committing any real combat asset to this conflict. Just ain't going to happen.

Too bad. Combat troops aren't necessary IMO, just a bit of backbone and materiel.

The Sudetenland and Austria came to mind as well, when I heard of Russia's issuing of passports to, for all intents and purposes, foreigners.

 

[m0tbaillie]

В районе грузино-югоосетинского конфликта сбиты два российских самолета Су-25 и Ту-22. Судьба пилотов уточняется

Как сообщил на брифинге заместитель начальника Генерального штаба ВС РФ генерал-полковник А. Наговицын по состоянию на утро 9 августа в районе грузино-югоосетинского конфликта «сбиты два российских самолета Су-25 и Ту-22. Судьба пилотов уточняется».

Reports indicate that two Russian aircraft, a Su-25 and a TU-22, have been shot down in the Georgian-'Yugosyetinskogo' conflict region. Currently, the fate of the pilots is uncertain.

In a briefing earlier this morning Deputy Chief of Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Colonel-General A. Nagovitsin' confirmed that on the yester-morning of 9 August forces in the Georgian-'Yugosyetinskogo' region of conflict "shot down two Russian Su-25 and TU-22 aircraft".

The article repeated itself, not sure why. But, I did the best translation I could. I'm rusty.

 

[Zissou]

Too bad. Combat troops aren't necessary IMO, just a bit of backbone and materiel.

The Sudetenland and Austria came to mind as well, when I heard of Russia's issuing of passports to, for all intents and purposes, foreigners.

War by proxy against Russia? Havent we done that too many times?

 

[scoolbubba]

The alternative is letting them push as much as they want. They already have the ability to squeeze Europe with control of gas and oil pipelines. Why let them get the full deck. Europe won't do anything to save themselves until it's too late, and we're right back to the bad old days again. Seems like a shitty cycle.

However, maybe the cold war wasn't so bad after all. Compared to jihad johnny, Ivan was downright civilized.


Those who never bother to learn history are doomed to repeat it, comes to mind in this situation.

 

[OUSOONER]

I don't know if you consider the gulags and all the people that "disappeared" to be civilized. The Middle East...they have that whole "birth place of civilization" going for them. The "jihads" you're referring too are terrorist groups...and they are everywhere.

Oh, and that guy considered to be one of the biggest mass murderers on the face of the planet..who was idolized by 'Ivan'...Joseph Stalin.

Ivan is another reason "Jihad Johnny" is so proficient with an RPG in Afghanistan...

 

[m0tbaillie]

Ivan is another reason "Jihad Johnny" is so proficient with an RPG in Afghanistan...

And we're the reason he has an RPG launcher in the first place.

 

[OUSOONER]

For those of you that really WANT to learn about the Middle East and all the myth's about their "uncivilization" and actually read about how they are actually like you and I...I highly recommend this book. There are also little snippets on youtube about scholars talking about it.

It's written by the late Edward Saïd ..the book is called Orientalism ..an absolute must in being able to talk intelligently about the Middle East, and maybe quell a lot of the myths and stereotypes. It's an easy read in my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism

Like I said, there are quick movies on youtube about it too if you care to do any research. Here is a good one to get you started. This is part 1 of 4..I reallllly recommend you watching all 4 pieces on youtube. /THREADJACK

 

[CWJones411]

And we're the reason he has an RPG launcher in the first place.

Arguably, that is Russia's fault.

 

[m0tbaillie]

Arguably, that is Russia's fault.

It's Russia's fault that they invaded Afghanistan and in retaliation the CIA trained and armed the mujahadeen resistance in Afghanistan?

 

[BrandonJ1780]

"Russia sinks Georgian warship" --Although "warship" might be a stretch, I admire the Georgian's cajones in taking on the Black Sea Fleet. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043236/Russia-sinks-Georgian-warship-bomb-Tbilisi-airport-refugees-flee-panic.html?ITO=1490
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LA560705.htm
Tblisi International Airport has now been bombed.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSLA548281
Incidentally, the road from the airport into downtown Tblisi is the "George W. Bush Highway." See second to last paragraph.
http://www.nashagazeta.ch/blogs/post/112