Flight Gear

[AllAmerican75]

So I was rereading part of Air Warriors by Douglas Waller and he made mention of cold weather suits. He said that they were hard to get into, uncomfortable, and a real pain in the ass. My question is, what are they? Are they like a drysuit or wetsuit? Do you wear them under or over your flight suit, or do you wear them instead of a flightsuit? Does anyone have any pictures or sea stories?

Also, while I'm on the topic of flight gear, what's the difference between the oxygen masks that have the hose on thye front and the ones that have the hose on the side? Is one better than the other? Are they issued to different platforms, like F/A-18 bubbas get one type and EA-6 bubbas get another, or is it personal preference?

Thanks a bunch.

 

[Schnugg]

The "dry suit" is worn when water temp drops below a certain temperature (55F?). Usually you wear some form of long underwear. Navy will issue you some that is pretty bulky. Then you put on the dry suit. Intent is not to keep you warm, but as the name says, dry, if you hit the water. When you get wet you lose heat much more quickly.

As all this is quite bulky, you usually have to see the PRs to have your G suit and/or harness let out quite a bit for winter flying.

The dry suit is someting you step into, and it zips up across the chest. You head and hands fit through flexible seals. They are now a soft black rubber. They used to be avery rough chafing hard white rubberized material. Worst thing I've ever worn was the old version. You put the suit on, close it up and "burp" it like tupperware to get a tight fit. Then put on your flight gear as you normally would.
It adds about 10 minutes to your dress out time. But well worth it if you give one back to the taxpayers over water.

The pic below is not the standard issue we get, but a USCG variant. Navy issue green all over. This shows you the general idea. Keeps you dry.

r/
G

 

[Ex Rigger]

If you ever put one on take your g**damn watch off first. They are one of the biggest pains in the ass to repair.

 

[Blutonski816]

Also, while I'm on the topic of flight gear, what's the difference between the oxygen masks that have the hose on thye front and the ones that have the hose on the side? Is one better than the other? Are they issued to different platforms, like F/A-18 bubbas get one type and EA-6 bubbas get another, or is it personal preference?

The masks with the "hose on the front" (MBU-17)have an inhale/exhale valve that is right ther on the hole in the facepiece. the Hose pumps in the O2 thru the inhale valve in the middle, and around that is the exhale valve that allows the exhaled air to flow out into the open...

the newer ones (MBU-23) have separate inhale and exhale valves on each side. I guess it's supposed to be better somehow.

I've seen photos of both types used by aircrew from all platforms that fly with O2 masks, and I don't see any pattern other than personal preference dictating the use of whatever Mask....

 

[Ex Rigger]

The only ones that we had for our squadron were the 17's but some guys who flew as guests had the new 23's which always had good reviews and made our guys jealous. If I remember correctly the MBU-23 used a different amplifier than the 17. The amps on our masks went out all the time and it was a pain in the ass getting them from supply because they were so damn expensive. The Navy always seems to pay way too much for things at times.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Thanks for the info. Hey I was wondering, does the Navy use a survival vest like the Air Force does for all the gear that a pilot/NFO/Enlisted Aircrewman has to carry or do y'all still use the old ALICE-like system.

 

[Ex Rigger]

We use the SV-2 survival vest.
http://www.tpub.com/1ase2/27.htm

 

[Schnugg]

Is the side variant mask a positive pressure breathing system? I may be mixing it up with the newer Combat Edge ant-g systems.

Amps....now, they can be a real PITA if they are not shielded properly on the boat. Lots of RF intereference and every sweep of the ship's SPS radar sounds like mad bees in your earphones...Ahh yes the good old days.

 

[RADO 18T]

The Navy now uses the AIRSAFE Vests (CMU-33's). It is basically made out of a mesh type nylon and 1" nylon webbing loops. It is basically integrated with harness and a D-ring.

I miss the old SV-2 vests and the old integrated torso harness - much easier to maintain. The SV-2 vests are still around for spare gear.


PR's - "We're the last to let you down" :icon_wink

 

[zippy]

I wear a "combat edge(?)" (MBU-23?). Nothing to do with personal preference... Its the mask that fits me the best. Most of the other students here in Corpus have the regular ones.

 

[AllAmerican75]

What do the CMU-33's look like? Are they similar to the Air Force issue survival vests?

 

[Gatordev]

What do the CMU-33's look like? Are they similar to the Air Force issue survival vests?

Yes, same gear, just how the different services put the pockets on varies. Sometimes you'll see the AF or Army wear what looks like a fishing vest. When they don't wear those, they both are now wearing a version of the CMU-33.

If you go to the Navy or Marine website, and look at any pic of aircrew, you'll see a CMU-33, w/ or w/out the flotation installed. It's a heavier vest, despite what "they" say, and it's a pain to deal with at first, but after flying w/ it for 3 years, I actually missed it going back to an SV-2. However, if I was in the water and having to survive w/ it, I'd want the SV-2 all the way up until they hoisted me. Then I'd go back to the Airsafe. The integrated harness of the Airsafe is much more comfortable to be lifted, but the flotation of the SV-2 is much easier to deal w/ in the water.

 

[squeeze]

I wear a "combat edge(?)" (MBU-23?). Nothing to do with personal preference... Its the mask that fits me the best. Most of the other students here in Corpus have the regular ones.

Same here. Has nothing to do with platforms or whatnot. The two models fit differently, and the CE mask fits my face better. It has its pros and cons, but overall it's a nice mask.

 

[ChuckMK23]

I always believed that Naval Aviation had the poorest Aviation Survival Equipment of all the services. The SV-2/LPU combo was an abomination. HEEDS made it worse. Very little thought or technology went into these systems - and instead they went with what was least expensive and supportable.

The Navy's view was that you were going to have to have a lot of mediocre survival gear and equipment that would last a very long time - thinking it would be a while before you were picked up. IMHO they went overboard covering every unlikely scenario at the cost of crew performance, comfort and combat survivability. The SV-2/LPU combo was not compatible with body armor. The AF and Army got the idea right from the beginning. The SRU-21 and LPU-9 combo was perfectly suitable for extended land and water operations, was light weight, and accomodated body armor and all the survival gear you needed. The AF, Army and Coast Guard adopted this system in the 80's and 90's. Why not USN/USMC? Typical NAVAIR and Safety Centre "not invented here" syndrome. Ditto with the HGU-84/P helo helmet.

The AIRSAVE seems to be a huge improvement. But frankly why did it take 20 years?

Dry Suits - for a sea service I cannot understand why the the AF and Coast Guard has a better more effective dry suit than Naval Aviation. But they do. It's worn and intended to be your only outer garment (not designed to have a flight suit over it) - The current system is just stupid. You guys deserve the best. Talk to an AF or USCG aircrew and they will not hesitate to wear their body condom - but our guys split hairs over water/airtemp combo instead of true operational considerations because it no sh!t reduces their effectiveness inthe aircraft.

Seriously - the whole topic reaffirms my everlasting belief that Navair and Safety Centre folks are a bunch of bereaucratic morons.

 

[Ex Rigger]

The Navy now uses the AIRSAFE Vests (CMU-33's). It is basically made out of a mesh type nylon and 1" nylon webbing loops. It is basically integrated with harness and a D-ring.

I miss the old SV-2 vests and the old integrated torso harness - much easier to maintain. The SV-2 vests are still around for spare gear.


PR's - "We're the last to let you down" :icon_wink

Well that goes to show that I'm an Ex-Rigger..........it's been a few years