Flight Pay... WTF?

[Flash]

Different pots of money my ass! In times of bailout, fiscally responsible accounting can make it happen. Explain to me why P-3 guys deployed to military bases should get per-diem. Maybe guys on IA's should get per-diem....even if it is $3 a day in Kandahar.

Probably because they are on temporary duty and are probably legally entitled to it. The same goes for military and government civilian workers on temporary duty or travel anywhere.

I got quite tired about boat guys whining about per diem about the 20th time I heard it. Well guess what, life sucks sometimes so deal with it. Think of it as the price of getting to fly the 'cool' planes.

There are plenty of pay inequities out there, flight pay, flight deck pay and per diem just scratch the surface. Do you have any idea how much government civilians make when they go to Iraq or Afghanistan? Some don't make a lot and some make out like bandits, it depends largely on the agency (yes, there are dramatic differences in some cases). How about government contractors over there? I know of some that made $200k for largely sitting on their asses. If we really want to talk about who should be paid for more for being in harms way then maybe they should give a bonus to infantrymen, since they are in the most 'danger' nowadays. Maybe they can shift some of our flight pay their way.......

So when I hear yet another complaint about P-3 guys (don't forget C-2, expeditionary EA-6B and E-6 guys) getting per diem my 'give a shit' meter doesn't budge an inch anymore. The annoyance factor however........So just suck it up and get that chin in knob!

 

[JIMC5499]

Did they ever fix the Flight Deck Pay billet issue?

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Fred, do any of the 1/2 of 1% work for you? Hope not.

Expand any counter argument for not accounting for inflation with any pay, if you take the 3.4% on your basic pay are you in this business for the wrong reason???

Why shouldn't JO's bitch for making 3.4% less on their $650 a year? It comes out to $265 annually! If anyone took 265 bucks from you would you bitch??? YUP! Entitlement, bullshit... a little ching is a welcome and deserved thanks for risking your ass... Having to consider the prospects of being fish food or riding fiery wreckage to impact on a daily basis warrants ching (as does anyone receiving incentive pay).

I'd still fly if they did away with flight pay, that wouldn't make it right. Paying folks in 1987 dollars ain't right either. Is your perception of "bitching" due to you not receiving the pay? Should your Sea Pay get a bump? Did your coffee taste funny today?

This is a care and feeding of the troops issue brothers, and that is always, always, always the right thing to do.

 

[HH-60H]

As for mess bills.... get together with the supply officers/tenant command reps, and see if they can offer cheaper food. The menu is what sets the price.

This is actually incorrect and is the drive of my point.

At least on CVN's there is no flexibility in what Suppos can buy/serve for the Wardrooms or mess decks. Big Navy determines the menus (at least the food purchased, not necessarily how/when it is prepared), but more importantly they determine how much each meal costs... XX amount for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and it is standard across the fleet. (Although, in all honesty the breakfast rate is less than lunch and dinner, but you get the point.) Gone are the days of a Wardroom deciding to spend a little more to have surf and turf every Sunday.

Sooooo, if Big Navy is going to set a standard rate for charging per meal, shouldn't BAS, in principle, be the same amount?

 

[eddie]

I'd still fly if they did away with flight pay, that wouldn't make it right.

Wait. Why not?

 

[zab1001]

It irritates me even more when P-3 dudes get per-diem for "deployment".

First of all, per diem covered what I was charged for meals and food. The Q wasn't free. Meals were not free, when the mess hall is closed for your schedule and you pay 3 meals a day out of pocket at the whatever is available, it adds up quick. Any money saved was from skipping meals, usually due to the flight schedule (land at 2am, gates are closed, nothing open X 30 flights, do the math). You don't "negotiate" the cost of your room.

Second: "deployment," I don't know what you're inferring there. I stayed everywhere from the Royal Garden in Pattaya, to a tent in BFE, to the disgusting Wadis, I worked my ass off, and I was paid per-diem accordingly. You go where the mission requires and stay where the Nav determines is adequate and safe.

Third: The "wives" comment. I never saw this happen. Maybe someone going on a long-term det and flying the spouse in for a few days. But I guess guys on the boat never do that...riiiiight.

But grind your axe and enjoy the sour grapes.

 

[ea6bflyr]

I spent Saturday night listening to a bunch of JO’s whine about the most asinine things. The entitlement attitude so many seem to have these days is mind boggling.

Alright lets look at ENTITLEMENTS, or in other words anything that ends with the word PAY. Servicemembers are entitled to various entitlements for VOLUNTEERING to do dangerous work, this includes, but is not limited to: AVIATION CAREER INCENTIVE PAY, HAZARDOUS DUTY INCENTIVE PAY, IMMINENT DANGER PAY/HOSTILE FIRE PAY, DIVING PAY, CAREER SEA PAY, SUBMARINE DUTY INCENTIVE PAY.
These pays are all EARNED by doing the dangerous job that other do not want to do. End of story.

As for mess bills.... get together with the supply officers/tenant command reps, and see if they can offer cheaper food. The menu is what sets the price.

If you haven't been on a BOAT and endured the overpayment for crappy food, then you have no dog in the fight. While you may have an opinion, you can't speak from experience.

-ea6bflyr

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Wives... the rule, so Ive been told (VR guy here, work with lots o P-3 dudes) goes squadron by squadron. I'll go out on a limb and say that far more significant others have been on P-3 6 month "detachments" than Tailhook aircraft "deployments"... nice benefit of the four fans of freedom if you land in the right squadron.

Slept in Djibouti (french for smells like urine??), Clark AB, Al Udied etc etc etc and on all but 2 of our CVNs ... IMO they all suck, but boots on nonskid can rise to new levels of suckdom... lets not have a pissing contest about it!

Yer per diem can be considered a good deal, if they imprisoned you up in government quarters, made you eat at the galley, charged you more than you were getting for meals, you'd understand. We all make our beds and gotsa sleep in em. Price one pays for going fast upside down with your hair on fire and all that shit right? Taken. Your job isn't as sexy by some folks measure, we still need folks to do it... thanks.

What if the per diem wasn't reviewed/updated every year (or more often for seasonal rates), would that be fair?

 

[zab1001]

Wow. You know what? That was probably the one of the most intelligent, gentlemanly responses I've seen on here. You've made valid points, for sure.

(btw, the flight pay increase thing, I agree, i was adressing per diem issues, que sera sera)

For the moment, I have no dog in this fight and will return to a paper I do not want to write.

 

[Fred]

This is actually incorrect and is the drive of my point.

At least on CVN's there is no flexibility in what Suppos can buy/serve for the Wardrooms or mess decks. Big Navy determines the menus (at least the food purchased, not necessarily how/when it is prepared), but more importantly they determine how much each meal costs... XX amount for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and it is standard across the fleet. (Although, in all honesty the breakfast rate is less than lunch and dinner, but you get the point.) Gone are the days of a Wardroom deciding to spend a little more to have surf and turf every Sunday.

Sooooo, if Big Navy is going to set a standard rate for charging per meal, shouldn't BAS, in principle, be the same amount?

Thank you for explaining, I didn't realize this had changed. What is the mess bill for officers on a carrier?

 

[Fred]

Fred, do any of the 1/2 of 1% work for you? Hope not.

Why shouldn't JO's bitch for making 3.4% less on their $650 a year? It comes out to $265 annually! If anyone took 265 bucks from you would you bitch??? YUP! Entitlement, bullshit... a little ching is a welcome and deserved thanks for risking your ass... Having to consider the prospects of being fish food or riding fiery wreckage to impact on a daily basis warrants ching (as does anyone receiving incentive pay).

I'd still fly if they did away with flight pay, that wouldn't make it right. Paying folks in 1987 dollars ain't right either. Is your perception of "bitching" due to you not receiving the pay? Should your Sea Pay get a bump? Did your coffee taste funny today?

This is a care and feeding of the troops issue brothers, and that is always, always, always the right thing to do.

Flight pay amount is no secret, it’s as easy to find as the amount of base pay. If one knows the pay prior to joining, and still chooses to join, I don’t understand bitching about it after getting in.

If you want to talk 1987 pay, look at the disparity between military and private sector pay at that time. There was a huge gap. Look at the old VHA/BAQ system, it was only meant to pay 80% of the average rental price, rather than the 100% BAH is supposed to. While BAH is far from perfect, and certain areas make no sense, it is much better than it was under the old program. Even with flight pay not keeping up with inflation, I’d venture to bet the standard of living for a JO in 2008 is higher than it was in 1987; between decent across the board pay raises, targeted pay raises, the BAH overhaul, etc.


As for my perception of their bitching...it has nothing to do with not getting flight pay. I don’t get sea pay, and my coffee was just fine thanks for asking.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Fred,
"If one knows the pay prior to joining, and still chooses to join, I don’t understand bitching about it after getting in."

Invalid argument - nothing wrong with complaining about pre-existing conditions as long as the complaint is reasonable.

 

[lmnop]

If one knows the pay prior to joining, and still chooses to join, I don’t understand bitching about it after getting in.

Following the statement above, you then go on to discuss how the old VHA/BAQ sytem sucked. Those of us who drew that allowance probably knew what those numbers were when we joined, but it doesn't prevent us from saying that it sucked and appreciating the improvements with BAH. As you said, the new system isn't perfect, but it beats the old one. You lost me though, on how it makes sense to apply that philosophy to allowances but not to special pays.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

So the counter argument is something like "It ain't broke enough to fix it yet?" I'll respectfully disagree!

I was in 10th grade in '87, busy riding my skateboard around getting in fights with the wrestlers, donno bout standard of living... we can do the math perty easy though... I'll look into it. I still smell pooh.

Although the Air Force (in residence with them now) has many many many queer flaws, they try to fix shit waaaaay before it breaks... I'll try to compose my possibly pointless letter to worthless congressman soon.

 

[red_ryder]

Average Median Salary (payscale.com):

Lawyer (5-9 years experience): $88,461


O-3/4yrs: (Aviation career incentive pay, StayNAVY website calculator, Pcola BAH):

According to your input, your Military Gross Pay is $78,363.12 annually.
As a civilian, you would have to earn $87,029.61 to have a comparable after tax income.